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I don't know if dyscalculia is the reason. I highly doubt it. I think that many people are so completely unaware of this disorder,at least at this point, that I doubt they are adjusting a text book for that something that many people do not even think exists.
Dyslexia and dyscalculia are common names. I am not sure of the official DSM-IV designation for dyslexia, but dyscalculia is "Mathematics Disorder", which I believe is the favored term. Of the World population, it is estimated that between 3.5 and 6.5% of the population has it.
I do not think someone should necessarily be forced to to learn math in college if they do not want to, depending on major of course, however, the learning of math is done for two reasons: to eventually lead the student to calculus, and, to learn how to solve a problem by breaking it down into smaller parts.
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Originally Posted by sheena12
I am confused as to how a disabled student could be "exploited," if marginal students attempt to "simulate a disability".
I cannot answer for Chemistry Guy, I would think he means that students who simply do not want to put in the time to learn math use something like dyscalculia to their advantage, which may divert resources from those who truly have the disorder. Those with dyscalculia simply cannot learn math. No matter how often they repeat a process, they will soon forget it.
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Originally Posted by sheena12
They are not lacking intellectually and dycalculiacs are people who are quite brilliant. Often their aggregate IQs fall into the superior range. Many of them would like nothing more than to excel in every subject in school.
I am not sure they all possess superior IQs, as IQ is one of benchmarks used in diagnosis, but in the very least they they tend to have no less of an IQ than what is considered normal for their age.
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Originally Posted by sheena12
Nice post! I am not only including colleges ranked "very to highly competitive or most competitive" colleges. I am also including colleges that are for the average student.
I went to college for the first three years about 40 miles outside of Boston, and I admit that I was shocked that Northeastern was ranked "highly competitive". I knew people who went there and they were mostly C+ - B students. In this day, many young people choose "destination colleges". I see a trend of students avoiding perfectly good schools that are in less than exciting places (such as upstate NY) for colleges that are in cities, good climates, near the slopes, or the or waves. It has benefited some colleges - University of Miami was a party school in my day, now not so much. NYU is another college that has benefited from this trend.
I date my self, but Pine Manor was once a finishing school for women, Then, it was upgraded to a women's junior college. Yes it did cater to the "Social Register Set" - but those who could not gain entrance to the Seven Sisters schools. Now it does have a very different group of students.
I'm not endorsing or knocking any of these schools, though. The purpose of the thread is to educate people about colleges that do not require Math courses for graduation. Judging from the positive feed back that I have received, there are many people who are interested in this subject.
When I went to school in Boston it seemed that most students simply wanted to go to school in Boston and went to the best school they could attend.
Northeastern is more competitive than BU (35% acceptance rate vs. 50%), is cheaper (and students pay for 8 semesters of undergrad even if their co-op puts them at five years), and in my opinion is the better school even though BU is ranked slighter higher.
Remember when the Gulf War occured it was a major topic of interest that (many) Americans could not find Iraq on a map, nor cared? If you are curious about what was colored blue, research the subject when you have a moment. I took a gamble with what I wrote, hence I'll bet. Generalizations exists on both sides, yet, I still stand by what I wrote. Ultimately, I do not think the British model would work in the U.S.
As for schools with no math requirement, I believe that in general programs in the humanities require little to no math at many schools. The same process, language, and symbology used to develop proofs and conjectures is the same in math as it is in philosophy/logic/reasoning. That is why math used to be considered philosophy (maybe it still is?) and why many schools offer at least one course in reasoning to fulfill math requirements for non-STEM majors.
Emerson is a communications/media school. I had a few friends that attended while I was going to school in Boston, they were all majoring in journalism, so it is not surprising that this school is on the list. Emerson does have three math courses, though; stats, "college math", and business math. As for Pine Manor; despite being in Chestnut Hill and near Boston College, it is not the hoity toity all-women's college it once was. Admissions focuses more on "life experiences" than it does GPA or SAT scores. I am glad the school exists, though. And they do offer calc I and calc II.
A friend of mine went to Marist. She really loved it.
I do not think Northeastern gets the respect it deserves, but being a large university in vincinity of BC, BU, Tufts (who does not get respect, either, it seems), MIT, and Harvard, I can understand why it is over looked. They have a co-op program were students work part time during their last two years or so while going to school part time. It takes five years to complete the program, but students graduate with two years of valid work experience in their field.
Northeastern may not get as much respect as it's Boston area peers, but it is not a college for a B student. According to this site: College Navigator - Northeastern University they accept just 35% of the students that apply and the avg SAT scores are close to 700 for each section.
According to this site, NU Core Overview There are at least two math classes required as part of the core components.
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Mathematical/Analytical Thinking
Complete an approved introductory-level course in mathematical thinking and its application to posing and solving problems and an approved intermediate-level course in modes of thought that allow abstraction, application, and synthesis of information.
Level 1
Complete one approved course in mathematical/analytical thinking level 1.
Level 2
Complete one approved course in mathematical/analytical thinking level 2.
Maybe analytical thinking is a soft math that would be okay? Nonetheless, Northeastern has a reputation as a highly technical college. My guess is that the students that choose to attend will not be math averse, and realistically most of the the majors themselves require quite a bit of math. If I was a theatre major, this would not be my first choice college.
A good keyword search might be "Name of University, core requirements"
Sheena,
As much as I admire you trying to come up with a list of colleges that do not require any math classes to graduate, I would put a caveat on the list for some of the reasons mention early on in this thread. Some of the colleges on your list have such high admissions standards that someone that has a math disability wouldn't have the SAT scores to be accepted. Brown University accepts only 9% (!) of the students that apply and most of them have over a 700 math score. So the chance of someone getting in that is not good at math to begin with is slim to none.
I looked at Marist because that's another college that my youngest son was accepted to, but chose not to attend. It actually shows two classes are required for their core, one can be passed out with the placement test http://www.marist.edu/academics/pdfs...quirements.pdf, but if I'm reading this right, a second one is required.
Northeastern is more competitive than BU (35% acceptance rate vs. 50%), is cheaper (and students pay for 8 semesters of undergrad even if their co-op puts them at five years), and in my opinion is the better school even though BU is ranked slighter higher.
Just goes to show how statistics have to be taken with a grain of salt. Trust me, Northeastern would drool to have the pool of applicants to "reject" that BU does. BU's rate, FWIW, was 45.5% in 2012 versus 35% in 2010 for NE (the most recent year for which data are available).
Well, I guess we're not really talking about a list of colleges that do not require math for the most part any more. However, I looked up Syracuse U and they have the same policy as another one I checked out yesterday that requires two courses in the math/science area, one of which has to be a lab science. It baffles me how there could be much of a lab science w/o math. Interestingly, these colleges generally require MORE courses in the humanities, for everyone.
I'm not going to look up all the colleges on that list, but since several errors have already been found, it's a safe bet that this list is quite misleading.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 02-12-2013 at 07:46 AM..
I cannot answer for Chemistry Guy, I would think he means that students who simply do not want to put in the time to learn math use something like dyscalculia to their advantage, which may divert resources from those who truly have the disorder. Those with dyscalculia simply cannot learn math. No matter how often they repeat a process, they will soon forget it.
This is pretty much what I was talking about. The two disabilities that I believe are overdiagnosed are anxiety and ADHD. I could rant about abuse of the system all day but this isn't the time or the place.
I do have a question about dyscalculia and higher math? How does a dyscalculaic student do in a subject such as real analysis or differential geometry? What about abstract algebra or dynamical systems? I have noticed that individuals with strong left brain dominance are often very good at calculus and differential equations but then run into lots of trouble with the very basics of real analysis such as continuity and smoothness.
I am terrible at math. I hated the subject with a passion in high school. I am now in my fourth year of college. My college only requires Stats and an algebra course for those who are in the liberal arts and Nursing/other healthcare majors.
I haven't taken the algebra course but I took the basic statistics and found it to be easy. This is coming from someone who struggled with math for years but was able to pull a solid A in a statistics course.
If one can't pass algebra or a lower level stats course, he or she has no business being there in the first place. Same goes for writing.
Well, I guess we're not really talking about a list of colleges that do not require math for the most part any more. However, I looked up Syracuse U and they have the same policy as another one I checked out yesterday that requires two courses in the math/science area, one of which has to be a lab science. It baffles me how there could be much of a lab science w/o math. Interestingly, these colleges generally require MORE courses in the humanities, for everyone.
I'm not going to look up all the colleges on that list, but since several errors have already been found, it's a safe bet that this list is quite misleading.
There are many schools that have a quantitative requirement that may be satisfied by something other than a pure math class. However, most of those classes require math in order to be able to be successful in them.
You can add Case Western to the list of schools that do not require a mathematics course for graduation. You may satisfy your core requirements by taking certain science classes.
According to the common data set for 2012/13 the middle 50% of students have an SAT math score that range from 660-760 and ACT math scores that range from 28 to 34. Only 7% of students admitted for the 12/13 school year had an SAT math score below 600 and 0% had a score below 500. So while it is possible to graduate without taking a math class, I doubt anyone with a really low standardized test score in math would be admitted.
Northeastern may not get as much respect as it's Boston area peers, but it is not a college for a B student. According to this site: College Navigator - Northeastern University they accept just 35% of the students that apply and the avg SAT scores are close to 700 for each section.
According to this site, NU Core Overview There are at least two math classes required as part of the core components.
Maybe analytical thinking is a soft math that would be okay? Nonetheless, Northeastern has a reputation as a highly technical college. My guess is that the students that choose to attend will not be math averse, and realistically most of the the majors themselves require quite a bit of math. If I was a theatre major, this would not be my first choice college.
A good keyword search might be "Name of University, core requirements"
Analytical thinking would be find for most. That's not the problem. The problem for Dyscalciliacs is NUMBERS. Algebra is a specific problem.
As to Northeastern and Math Requirements, they DO have a Mathematics Course that is specifically designed for students with this disorder. This is often NOT THE STANDARD requirement, and thus requires some digging, through The Office of Disability Services, counselors who specialize in learning disabilities, or guide books that specialize in helping students and their parents to navigate the ofttimes murky waters of locating a college that will make class substitutions, waivers, or other alternatives.
I can not think of any institution that advertises that it is "LD Friendly", other than colleges that are specifically for students with learning disabilities. I can only think of one Beacon College in Florida. Students who attend there often have a variety of issues far more complex than the necessity of one or two course substations.
The information that I found about Northeastern was from a guide book that I borrowed recently. "The Princeton Review Guide for Students with Learning Disabilities".
I have no reason to believe that this guide is inaccurate.
The problem with dyscalculia is that it is still misunderstood. Often people do not believe it exists. Where as Dyslexia has been widely accepted, and believed for over 30 years, people are just learning about Dyscalculia right now.
There is more acceptance of Dyslexia. I have several theories. Dyslexia presents early, when a child is learning to read. It effects all academic subjects, because literacy is needed for all academics, instead of only reading and language arts.
When Dylexia presents, the children are typically young. Parents and educators alike, can see evidence of this disorder in the students hand writing. From the start, there is little disagreement that this is a serious problem.
Dyscalulia presents later, often around the time that Algebra is introduced into the student's curriculum. These students are bright and motivated. Their outstanding verbal skills, intellectual aptitude and achievement, coupled with the fact that teenagers are often viewed with suspicion are obstetrical s themselves. These students are often gifted. Parents and teachers, most often more likely to think that it's only a matter of "trying harder".
Dycaluliacs can, because of their intellectual ability, mask the problem or deny that it exists. Since so much of their self worth and identity is connected to academic achievement, they do not want to be found out. These are generally good to superior students who don't want to fail. They are also disproportionally female. Their is a perception their girls are just not that good in Math and their problems are often chalked up to that perception when that is not the case.
All of these factors tend to cloud the waters that Dyscaluliacs must navigate.
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