What do you know about the American Military University? (NYU, uniform, teacher)
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I'm not going to argue with someone who has no clue about how AMU is viewed in the workforce. The whole thread is getting off track of my original point.
The school is a joke. Plain and simple. There is no way to argue that it is not. The school is a diploma mill for the military. That is all it is. If you were in the military and saw the type of scam they have going you'd probably agree with me.
The PMF isn't really a good example to begin with. If any of the people are Vets, they get sent to the top of the hiring cert regardless of their degree. Look up the laws on veteran preference if you don't believe me.
A good example would be a HR manager speaking about the value of for profit education who is not required by law to hire veterans. I posted that on the last page. They aren't considered useful to big name companies. I even heard straight from the mouth of a federal hiring manager who hates being forced to hire vets with for profit degrees. He thinks the they're useless. Plus, I've already posted the current SES of the DOD. 95% are prestigious universities. Do you honestly think their going to hire replacements who went to school online at for profit institutions?
My wife works in HR for a Fortune 50 company and told me straight up that their company will not hire online for profit degrees for management positions. There are no cases of successful business men with an AMU or for profit degrees (successful meaning managing director or above at a top company, not Joe blow who makes 70K a year after getting an MBA from AMU).
Thomas Edison and whatever other colleges you posted are colleges designed specifically for working adults. A real state research university will always have admission standards.
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To apply to an undergraduate program at Thomas Edison State College, you must be at least 21 years old and possess a high school diploma or a General Educational Development
Straight from Thomas Edison's website. You couldn't even go the college out of high school if you wanted to. Fun fact, this college is also a running joke in the military. Enlisted guys go here and get their worthless degrees just like AMU. I met a guy who graduated from there with a degree in Meteorology and did not even take a math class pass algebra. Please tell me how anyone can take a school like that serious?
Nobody wants to accept the truth that the for profit degrees are garbage.
If you want evidence of my claims for MBA programs and access to recruiting then do a search. It's a widely known fact. Why do you think part time programs have lower admission standards? An MBA is used for people to switch careers and break into a new career path. The top full time programs have a very low acceptance rate and recruiters specifically target the key schools during hiring season. It's widely understood that the part time programs don't get access to the same opportunities the full time people do.
Last edited by Pyramidsurf; 02-04-2013 at 01:08 PM..
I'm not going to argue with someone who has no clue about how AMU is viewed in the workforce. The whole thread is getting off track of my original point.
The school is a joke. Plain and simple. There is no way to argue that it is not. The school is a diploma mill for the military. That is all it is. If you were in the military and saw the type of scam they have going you'd probably agree with me.
The PMF isn't really a good example to begin with. If any of the people are Vets, they get sent to the top of the hiring cert regardless of their degree. Look up the laws on veteran preference if you don't believe me.
A good example would be a HR manager speaking about the value of for profit education who is not required by law to hire veterans. I posted that on the last page. They aren't considered useful to big name companies. I even heard straight from the mouth of a federal hiring manager who hates being forced to hire vets with for profit degrees. He thinks the they're useless. Plus, I've already posted the current SES of the DOD. 95% are prestigious universities. Do you honestly think their going to hire replacements who went to school online at for profit institutions?
My wife works in HR for a Fortune 50 company and told me straight up that their company will not hire online for profit degrees for management positions. There are no cases of successful business men with an AMU or for profit degrees (successful meaning managing director or above at a top company, not Joe blow who makes 70K a year after getting an MBA from AMU).
Thomas Edison and whatever other colleges you posted are colleges designed specifically for working adults. A real state research university will always have admission standards.
Straight from Thomas Edison's website. You couldn't even go the college out of high school if you wanted to. Fun fact, this college is also a running joke in the military. Enlisted guys go here and get their worthless degrees just like AMU. I met a guy who graduated from there with a degree in Meteorology and did not even take a math class pass algebra. Please tell me how anyone can take a school like that serious?
Nobody wants to accept the truth that the for profit degrees are garbage.
If you want evidence of my claims for MBA programs and access to recruiting then do a search. It's a widely known fact. Why do you think part time programs have lower admission standards? An MBA is used for people to switch careers and break into a new career path. The top full time programs have a very low acceptance rate and recruiters specifically target the key schools during hiring season. It's widely understood that the part time programs don't get access to the same opportunities the full time people do.
You aren't even worth debating with. Since you have clearly been wrong on many fronts, you just change the subject. You wanted state schools and I listed them. You wanted Ivy League schools and I listed them. You said that a very very small percentage of PMF semi-finalists attended for-profits and I proved you wrong. You clearly don't know much about distance education or colleges in general. That person with the meteorology from TESC must have graduated a long time ago because TESC hasn't offered a bachelor's degree in meteorology in years if it ever did. I know it offered an associate's degree where math requirements tend to be lower anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if you're just making up stuff or getting your facts mixed up.
Other than that, I don't even know what you're arguing against. I never said that for-profits were highly reputable schools or that they would make one competitive on the job market. You're just talking in circles. You also don't know the definition of a diploma mill. Diploma mills are unaccredited schools that let people pay for their degrees without doing any work. Since most of the people who are in the top ranks of the military now attended school before online degrees even existed, there's no telling what kind of degrees future military leaders will hold. I don't know what you consider prestigious. One of the people I posted had a degree from the University of Montana. A school that's ranked 199 isn't prestigious.
You aren't even worth debating with. Since you have clearly been wrong on many fronts, you just change the subject. You wanted state schools and I listed them. You wanted Ivy League schools and I listed them. You said that a very very small percentage of PMF semi-finalists attended for-profits and I proved you wrong. You clearly don't know much about distance education or colleges in general. That person with the meteorology from TESC must have graduated a long time ago because TESC hasn't offered a bachelor's degree in meteorology in years if it ever did. I know it offered an associate's degree where math requirements tend to be lower anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if you're just making up stuff or getting your facts mixed up.
You've clearly been wrong.
Your state schools you posted are a joke and made for HS dropouts. No one would actually consider Thomas Edison to be a legitimate University. You cannot post a legitimate 4 year state school with no admission standards because they don't exist.
You first posted Harvard extension trying to play that off as IVY. It's not. You then posted graduate level programs. I'll give you that one. But I highly doubt they accept just anyone like AMU. If you consider all of the degree programs the colleges offer, it makes up such a small percent that it's a moot point. There will never be a online bachelors from a reputable college.
If you actually did a total count, the prestigious universities far exceed the PMF semi-finalists with for profit degrees. But, like I said earlier, vet preference skews those numbers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by L210
Other than that, I don't even know what you're arguing against. I never said that for-profits were highly reputable schools or that they would make one competitive on the job market. You're just talking in circles. You also don't know the definition of a diploma mill. Diploma mills are unaccredited schools that let people pay for their degrees without doing any work. Since most of the people who are in the top ranks of the military now attended school before online degrees even existed, there's no telling what kind of degrees future military leaders will hold. I don't know what you consider prestigious. One of the people I posted had a degree from the University of Montana. A school that's ranked 199 isn't prestigious.
You're obviously missing my point that AMU and for profit degrees are worthless.
It's a diploma mill. The amount of work to graduate is a joke compared to a 4 year university. People who teach there have posted in this thread confirming it.
Unlike you, I actually work with military leaders. Maybe 1% of the Officers I work with have an online for profit degrees. The majority went to either a Service Academy or a strong state school through ROTC. There isn't even a route for Active Duty Officers to graduate with an online bachelors unless they were prior enlisted and went through OCS. I've already talked about that.
I'm not sure why you care. You're not in the military nor have you ever dealt with an AMU graduate. I have and I can tell you their undergraduate program does not properly prepare their graduates for actual graduate level work.
Your state schools you posted are a joke and made for HS dropouts. No one would actually consider Thomas Edison to be a legitimate University. You cannot post a legitimate 4 year state school with no admission standards because they don't exist.
Do you know how ridiculous you sound? You asked for a state school and I gave you a few. These are accredited schools that qualify for financial aid and professional licenses. They are legitimate. You and others may not look at them highly, but they are legitimate. You're just making up all kinds of excuses to get out of admitting that you are flat out wrong. Not only do you not know the definition of a diploma mill, but you also don't know the definition of "legitimate." Which college let you graduate?
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You first posted Harvard extension trying to play that off as IVY. It's not. You then posted graduate level programs. I'll give you that one. But I highly doubt they accept just anyone like AMU. If you consider all of the degree programs the colleges offer, it makes up such a small percent that it's a moot point. There will never be a online bachelors from a reputable college.
You wanted online programs from an Ivy League and I listed them. Now, that's not good enough because you were proven wrong. Now, you want to change it to any reputable school with an online bachelor's. Are you being serious? There are online bachelor's degrees from reputable schools. How many times are you going to make yourself look clueless by making incorrect assumptions?
University of Illinois - Urbana-Champaign is ranked #46. IVC |
These are only top 50 schools. There are more online baccalaureate programs in the top 100.
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If you actually did a total count, the prestigious universities far exceed the PMF semi-finalists with for profit degrees. But, like I said earlier, vet preference skews those numbers.
I'm not going to count every one, but you stated that a very very small percentage attended for-profit schools. You were wrong.
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It's a diploma mill. The amount of work to graduate is a joke compared to a 4 year university. People who teach there have posted in this thread confirming it.
That's not the definition of "diploma mill." Can you prove that they require less work? I think I came across some AMU syllabi before.
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Unlike you, I actually work with military leaders. Maybe 1% of the Officers I work with have an online for profit degrees. The majority went to either a Service Academy or a strong state school through ROTC. There isn't even a route for Active Duty Officers to graduate with an online bachelors unless they were prior enlisted and went through OCS. I've already talked about that.
Most of these people also attended college before for-profits became popular, but I'm not here to argue that for-profits are highly respected schools. You seem to be missing that point.
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I'm not sure why you care. You're not in the military nor have you ever dealt with an AMU graduate. I have and I can tell you their undergraduate program does not properly prepare their graduates for actual graduate level work.
Two of my classmates in my graduate program graduated from AMU. I attend a non-profit, state university that has professors who teach at an intelligence school for the Air Force. One of those professors completed most of his PhD online, although, it was at a non-profit school. His bachelor's came from Excelsior College, which is a lot like Thomas Edison State College. He got his master's at a military college and was even a professor at one.
Well, I just took some time from doing some schoolwork for my BUS603 Quantitative Analysis class at AMU to see what other people were saying about the legitimacy of this school. I started reading on page 8 of this thread, dated in 2010. A lot of people said a lot of things, and I was quite entertained by it all.
I had already come to the conclusion that AMU is all about profit, and they definitely have a sweet gig getting money straight from the Government with GI Bills and tuition assistance. Can't beat them for having a stellar business model...but educating the People of America is ultimately more important than turning profit.
I earned my Bachelor of public health from AMU while enlisted in the Navy. It may have helped get me a job as a contractor doing mindless administrative tasks (every public health job I applied for went nowhere), but that job was a joke, so I quit and began pursuing an MBA.
During my BPH coursework, I always considered AMU kind of a joke. There were people using horrible grammar in mindless discussion posts. It drove me crazy (I'm 100% sure they passed). The teachers were either really great at communicating, or absolutely horrible at it. Most of the classes are incredibly easy. Towards the end of my 'senior' year, I began shortening my papers just to see if the teachers noticed. I also bulls**ted some of them with filler to see if they even read them. They did not, and I made A's on mediocre papers for the last few classes. I did this partially out of laziness, but mostly because I realized I could and still make good grades.
When you are in a class full of people who don't try and still pass...well, its kind of like socialism...the dummies are getting A's for garbage work, so why should the smart ones work any harder then them?
There are some classes which were definitely tough (because the teacher MADE it difficult), but for the most part, it was all pretty easy. Some of the books I received for class were cheap and absolutely useless.
For AMU, you really get out of it what you put in to it. I decided to stick with them out of convenience; they had all of my community college and bachelor transcripts, and transitioning to an MBA was incredibly easy. I really want to believe that when I am finished, my MBA from AMU will help me get a decent job...but part of me is certain that I will be stuck doing government work, of which I have no desire to do (unless it pays really well). As everyone here has said, AMU is great for government/military work.
A buddy of mine worked in Intelligence in the Navy. He got his masters in International Studies from AMU. He now works in Tampa making REAL money...so AMU can't be all that bad. I really think it depends on which degree you decide to pursue.
Another buddy of mine also got his Master's from AMU. He is now a GS-9 in the DOJ in DC.
You certainly can't beat the price. I have always wanted a challenge when it comes to learning, however. Sure, there is a fair amount paper writing, and you will get out what you put in. The main problem is this; if teachers are passing people who aren't trying or are clearly not getting the subject, then what does that actually say about the school's reputation? If the job market is flooded with ignorant individuals holding an AMU degree and claiming to be educated, that's pretty much ruining it for those who worked hard to get their AMU degree. But this goes for ALL colleges, B&M included.
All in all, it IS an education, and some education is ALWAYS better than NONE!
AMU just needs to be a little more concerned about the learning aspect.
Show me one degree program from an IVY that is fully and completely online. There isn't one. They might have one or two classes, but there isn't a program to graduate without setting foot on campus.
It would never happen. If a company appointed a for profit graduate to their executive ranks their stock would drop instantly.
I have no trouble distinguishing online vs for profit. I'm fully aware of the difference.
One thing the online MBA programs do not tell you is that the students in the programs do not get access to the same recruiting that the full time in person people do. Recruiters roll out the red carpet for top MBA's to be recruited to their company. Online MBA's do not get access and do not get help from the career services of the school. Employers aren't interested and it is why the amount of top programs with online degrees does not amount to much.
Once again, it's all military. It brings me right back to my point in the thread. The entire AMU program is a joke outside the military. It's useless to your career unless you're a fast tracker to general. You left out the fact most of them went to prestigious universities for undergrad and will not have to find a new career like the other people considering AMU in this thread.
I've already posted evidence proving it. Hiring managers won't consider you. You'll never be considered for the management programs at top companies. Ever.
Show me one state school that is the same as AMU. AMU has NO STANDARDS. At all. You could have a GED and score in the mentally challenged range of the SAT and still be admitted. They'll give you credit for boot camp and anything else you did in the military that has nothing to do with college.
For profits degrees are garbage. Employers know it. If someone wants to set themselves up for failure, then go right ahead.
Columbia Univ is starting this year a graduate degree program (MA) that can be completed online.
Well, since I am in the military and working shift work and can't afford out of state tuition...I am better off shooting myself in the face right now. Obviously I will amount to nothing and it is evidently clear that if I pursue a degree from AMU then go on to retire from the military (20 years of relevant experience) that no one will hire me.
Don't forget that your tax dollars pay for my education. If it is a joke then get in touch with your congressman and request that the military gets an education from schools that are practical and can actually take us places. I mean, we fight for your freedom. Why not fight for our education? You are the ones paying for it anyway.
This is to the civilians who more than likely work 9-5 jobs and get weekends and holidays off. I work grave shift, 14 hours a day, and get two days off in the middle of the week. Mommy and daddy couldn't afford my education and I'll be damned if I get screwed over with loans like the average, fat american.
Oh yeah, I just got home from Afghanistan by the way.
I wasn't trying to be overly rude with my previous post, but seriously. Step into someone else's shoes for once and try to see another perspective to the situations at hand. I am sure that there are military personnel who feel that AMU or Thomas Edison and like schools are a joke, but there are some who don't get the opportunities that others in the military get. For instance, I person working 8-4 in a finance office has more opportunity to apply for and attend a better school than someone who works as military police and has to work 6pm-6am.
I am just going to say that life throws unfair difficulties at people, and maybe AMU helps level the playing field by accommodating those with unique schedules. Not to mention that fact that those who retire from the military, as long as they have a BA/BS they have a leg up over a lot of people in a lot of positions relative to their field of work. We all come from different backgrounds. Some of us are more technical and don't handle classroom situations well, and some of us can't afford these awesome schools and join fraternities to open unlimited doors to us. Some of us work schedules that don't allow us to complete degrees, and some schools that do offer online degrees just don't offer what we are interested in.
Everyone is unique and different. Think twice before judging the schools that others attend, because in the end trying something is better than sitting idly by and hoping for something better.
Well, since I am in the military and working shift work and can't afford out of state tuition...I am better off shooting myself in the face right now. Obviously I will amount to nothing and it is evidently clear that if I pursue a degree from AMU then go on to retire from the military (20 years of relevant experience) that no one will hire me.
Don't forget that your tax dollars pay for my education. If it is a joke then get in touch with your congressman and request that the military gets an education from schools that are practical and can actually take us places. I mean, we fight for your freedom. Why not fight for our education? You are the ones paying for it anyway.
This is to the civilians who more than likely work 9-5 jobs and get weekends and holidays off. I work grave shift, 14 hours a day, and get two days off in the middle of the week. Mommy and daddy couldn't afford my education and I'll be damned if I get screwed over with loans like the average, fat american.
I've heard it all before. I served in the military too. For seven years. As an Officer and NCO.
Tax dollars paid for my education too.
When I was enlisted I decided to get out and go to the best state school I could because it would be free. I ended up commissioning and later finding an incredible GS position as a civilian. None of that would have been possible if I didn't invest my time to the best school possible. I know for a fact an AMU degree would not have got me an interview with the people who interviewed me.
You haven't been on the outside yet. It's not nearly as simple as "I'm a vet/retired show me the money". Competition is fierce and online for profit degrees are an easy way to weed the applicants off the bat. Job openings on USAjobs get 1000's of applicants for one position. Guys who are retired O-6's are getting turned down. It's rough.
Take this FWIW (free) but it's not as easy as finding a job as people make it after serving in the military. I didn't believe it either until I did it for myself.
I'm in Afghanistan right now and AMU/APU was a viable a option when I was hunting around for a Masters program. In the end I decided on a online program with Liberty University(LU). For vets and military all credit hours are 250 no matter the level. And for full time undergrad programs they give a huge discount on books if your a vet/ active military. Even your wife can get that rate. In the end LU won out because they are a solid school that plays NCAA D1 sports. I firmly believe schools with sports programs have something completely online schools don't have. Even MIT plays sports. And now with traditional schools like LU getting into the online game it's hard to justify schools like AMU/UMUC/WGU/UoP/Devry etc etc. I'm not saying AMU sucks but its not the only game in town. And LU is no Harvard but for what it costs me its a steal.
Here's a good example of what I mean. It's a tad snobby but I'm sure this perspective is more common then people would like too believe. Below is the quote I am specifically talking about.
Besides the promotional pipelines it creates, setting a floor of college attainment also creates more office camaraderie, said Mr. Slipakoff, who handles most of the firm’s hiring and is especially partial to his fellow University of Florida graduates. There is a lot of trash-talking of each other’s college football teams, for example. And this year the office’s Christmas tree ornaments were a colorful menagerie of college mascots — Gators, Blue Devils, Yellow Jackets, Wolves, Eagles, Tigers, Panthers — in which just about every staffer’s school was represented.
“You know, if we had someone here with just a G.E.D. or something, I can see how they might feel slighted by the social atmosphere here,” he says. “There really is something sort of cohesive or binding about the fact that all of us went to college.”
Last edited by curtisc83; 02-21-2013 at 07:34 PM..
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Interesting reading on this DB about AMU
