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seems the cop had the right to order her out of the car at will due to Pennsylvania v. Mimms (1977):
The State freely concedes the officer had no reason to suspect foul play from the particular driver at the time of the stop, there having been nothing unusual or suspicious about his behavior. It was apparently his practice to order all drivers out of their vehicles as a matter of course whenever they had been stopped for a traffic violation. The State argues that this practice was adopted as a precautionary measure to afford a degree of protection to the officer, and that it may be justified on that ground. Establishing a face-to-face confrontation diminishes the possibility, otherwise substantial, that the driver can make unobserved movements; this, in turn, reduces the likelihood that the officer will be the victim of an assault.
We think it too plain for argument that the State's proffered justification—the safety of the officer—is both legitimate and weighty....
The hazard of accidental injury from passing traffic to an officer standing on the driver's side of the vehicle may also be appreciable in some situations. Rather than conversing while standing exposed to moving traffic, the officer prudently may prefer to ask the driver of the vehicle to step out of the car and off onto the shoulder of the road where the inquiry may be pursued with greater safety to both.
Against this important interest, we are asked to weigh the intrusion into the driver's personal liberty occasioned not by the initial stop of the vehicle, which was admittedly justified, but by the order to get out of the car. We think this additional intrusion can only be described as de minimis.
how does any of that verbiage support the assertion of your opening sentence? Please find the appropriate supporting verbiage or stand down. In any case I don't think the issue of whether or not the cop was right to order her out of her car is the main question on everyones mind. I think people want to know how and why she is dead after four days in police custody for a routine traffic stop. If she suffered a stroke, seizure, heart attack or any of a half dozen common maladies there would be NO issue. They would have been eager to present the evidence to show a death from natural causes. It is so obvious that they are pulling a scenario together from the sketchy way they are releasing bits of information at at time. They are caught in a bind. They would love to hide behind the Blue Wall of Silence but recent abuses by jurisdictions in other red states have rendered that tactic inadvisable.
If she was in there for four days without phenobarbital (or another seizure medication) she could very well have had a fatal seizure.
I haven't heard anything about her medical condition, though.
If that were the case do you really think that the jail staff would go through with the risky and complicated shared conspiracy of attempting to make it look like a hanging by trash bag liner?
I can understand the folks saying that it is rare for a AA woman to commit suicide but it is quite a leap to infer a murder happened here. For what motive, and who is she of some extra importance than anybody else in for a minor arrest that someone so passionately hated her or had to get rid of her in that jail cell that was in contact with her there? And there really needs to be a concerted conspiracy here by several people. I just don't see it.
If that were the case do you really think that the jail staff would go through with the risky and complicated shared conspiracy of attempting to make it look like a hanging by trash bag liner?
I can understand the folks saying that it is rare for a AA woman to commit suicide but it is quite a leap to infer a murder happened here. For what motive, and who is she of some extra importance than anybody else in for a minor arrest that someone so passionately hated her or had to get rid of her in that jail cell that was in contact with her there? And there really needs to be a concerted conspiracy here by several people. I just don't see it.
It makes people feel better to fan the flames of racism. You make a good point and I would like to see the poster's with the conspiracy theories respond to your post.
how does any of that verbiage support the assertion of your opening sentence? Please find the appropriate supporting verbiage or stand down.
i'll give you the boilerplate version:
In Pennsylvania v. Mimms, the United States Supreme Court held that a police officer may order the driver of a lawfully stopped vehicle to exit the vehicle without violating the reasonableness requirement of the Fourth Amendment. In reaching its holding, the Supreme Court in Mimms found that legitimate concerns for officer safety outweighed the additional "de minimis" intrusion on the driver's personal liberty caused by the order to exit the car
In any case I don't think the issue of whether or not the cop was right to order her out of her car is the main question on everyones mind. I think people want to know how and why she is dead after four days in police custody for a routine traffic stop.
i agree, but discussing whether she should have 'ended up in jail on this routine traffic stop' in the first place is a perfectly valid concern as well.
yes, I see now that her theoretical scenario could have played out over the intercom rather than face to face.
but the time line is waaay off. she was in the clink for four days.
wait - you're claiming there's a secret back door into her cell?
Except, that she didn't kick the cop and if he had not dragged her out of her car, she would not have had any physical contact with him. How is it illegal to smoke in her own car? How is it illegal to disrespect the cop verbally?
Just like El Chapos cell had a blind spot so did Sandra Bland's cell.
The video of that cell does not show the inside of the cell or the floor because of the blind spot. The jail camera for the hallway works off a motion sensor which is easy to disable. All you need is some tape (or even a post it note - I have used that to disable the flushing motion sensors when my kids were afraid of the noise). There's always a special cell off camera, that they put special people in so that special things happen to them.
Bland was placed in that cell because it was in the back beside an exit door and anyone could have entered the cell through that door without being on camera.
People behave in all kinds of ways when pulled over. You don't. I get that. You don't speak for everyone. As I understand it a full 30%(!) of white drivers are uncooperative when pulled over. Think about that, 30%. Some physically assault officers causing injury during their arrests. That certainly isn't you. But... everyone? So was the cop's behavior excessive? You say it was. I don't know... I'd say maybe it wasn't. If you are correct and her behavior was "way out of line"... well it can be argued that the officers behavior was not excessive at all.
I am saying if you give a cop and ounce of respect they, usually, don't turn into an *******. I am sure there are rotten cops out there, and even if you give them respect they are mean. But, gee, yanking a person out of the car because they are behaving in a rude and ignorant fashion is excessive. UNLESS the cop suspected that person was under the influence, then it's a whole different story.
I can understand the folks saying that it is rare for a AA woman to commit suicide but it is quite a leap to infer a murder happened here. For what motive, and who is she of some extra importance than anybody else in for a minor arrest that someone so passionately hated her or had to get rid of her in that jail cell that was in contact with her there? And there really needs to be a concerted conspiracy here by several people. I just don't see it.
You have to know that there are several kinds of murder. Depraved indifference is one of them but so is second degree manslaughter and involuntary manslaughter. Her killers... didn't need to know her, or hate her or be emotionally invested in her in any way. If their treatment of her was offhand, rough, or ... depravedly indifferent, it could have led to her death. Can you see that? Elsewhere on the internet there is cell cam video of a black woman in an interaction with a police officer who slams her to the ground so violently that she immediately lost consciousness on impact. She could easily have been killed. She wasn't, but the officer was NOT thinking that when he shoved her. He was not intending to kill her, he was not not intending to kill her. He didn't care, at that moment, what happened to her, because she was black. He would have cared if she was white or any other race, except black. Jail staff who ignored requests for assistance from Bland's cell would be guilty of murder in an oblique way. No motive, no need to get rid of her, as a matter of fact, being that most of these jail systems are run for profit there is a lot of motivation to keep them full of people like Bland. America would completely melt down overnight in an orgy of resistance, if cash strapped jurisdictions started adopting fair policing and started hauling white misdemeanor offenders in at a rate proportionate to their apprehensions. The price for letting 2/3 of white crime go unpunished must be made up by the 500% over enforcement of the very same offenses committed by black offenders.
I don't believe that Sandra Bland was murdered, however, the fact that a simple traffic stop ended up with a person being in jail for over 3 days, then her ending up dead is troubling. While Ms. Bland would have been better off (and likely would still be alive today) had she simply answered his questions without showing her annoyance, police officers also need to be sure that they don't escalate the situation when a person is clearly upset. From what I saw in that video, the officer did not like being spoken to in the manner which she was speaking to him, and he endeavored to assert his control by asking stupid, needling questions ("What's the matter? You seem upset." which clearly just made her madder) to demanding that she put out the cigarette while she was sitting in her own car (completely unreasonable from my point of view, and unnecessary) and when she refused, he then went completely overboard and pulled her out of the car, basically. Did she kick him? Maybe, or maybe, when he was wrestling her to the ground, her foot might have hit his leg unintentionally, or maybe it didn't happen at all. While I agree with those who state that the best course of action when one comes into contact with the police is to be civil (never will I call a police officer "sir" or "maam", only "officer"), I also believe that law enforcement need to follow procedure, and be professional, regardless. This officer did not.
How this officer turned a non violent confrontation with an unarmed civilian into a violent confrontation is troubling. He is entirely responsible for that, she likely would never have left the car if he hadn't ordered her out, he only ordered her out because she refused to put out her cigarette, which was an unreasonable request, a request seeming made by an officer on a power trip, one trying to exert control.
Another day, another hood fairy tale and conspiracy theory. Some people must live in a magical world where evidence, facts, and common sense are just thrown out the window and we can make reality into what we want, instead of what it is. Mike Brown really had his hands in the air saying "Don't shoot" and pleading for his life. This woman was really murdered.
This post is a good example of what I'm talking about:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm
You have to know that there are several kinds of murder. Depraved indifference is one of them but so is second degree manslaughter and involuntary manslaughter. Her killers... didn't need to know her, or hate her or be emotionally invested in her in any way. If their treatment of her was offhand, rough, or ... depravedly indifferent, it could have led to her death. Can you see that? Elsewhere on the internet there is cell cam video of a black woman in an interaction with a police officer who slams her to the ground so violently that she immediately lost consciousness on impact. She could easily have been killed. She wasn't, but the officer was NOT thinking that when he shoved her. He was not intending to kill her, he was not not intending to kill her. He didn't care, at that moment, what happened to her, because she was black. He would have cared if she was white or any other race, except black. Jail staff who ignored requests for assistance from Bland's cell would be guilty of murder in an oblique way. No motive, no need to get rid of her, as a matter of fact, being that most of these jail systems are run for profit there is a lot of motivation to keep them full of people like Bland. America would completely melt down overnight in an orgy of resistance, if cash strapped jurisdictions started adopting fair policing and started hauling white misdemeanor offenders in at a rate proportionate to their apprehensions. The price for letting 2/3 of white crime go unpunished must be made up by the 500% over enforcement of the very same offenses committed by black offenders.
Particularly this part:
Quote:
He was not intending to kill her, he was not not intending to kill her. He didn't care, at that moment, what happened to her, because she was black. He would have cared if she was white or any other race, except black.
This is just made up off the top of some SJWs head, yet many a leftist will take this as gospel. This all opinion, deranged opinion. There are no facts that point to this officer being racist, somehow he made it his whole life and entire career without killing blacks that he so "clearly hates."
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how does any of that verbiage support the assertion of your opening sentence? Please find the appropriate supporting verbiage or stand down. In any case I don't think the issue of whether or not the cop was right to order her out of her car is the main question on everyones mind. I think people want to know how and why she is dead after four days in police custody for a routine traffic stop. If she suffered a stroke, seizure, heart attack or any of a half dozen common maladies there would be NO issue. They would have been eager to present the evidence to show a death from natural causes. It is so obvious that they are pulling a scenario together from the sketchy way they are releasing bits of information at at time. They are caught in a bind. They would love to hide behind the Blue Wall of Silence but recent abuses by jurisdictions in other red states have rendered that tactic inadvisable.
