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And what paid-time-off perk do businesses offer to child-free people?
Exactly. And that is my beef with paid family leave. If businesses want to offer paid time off for new parents, fantastic. Then offer the same thing for people who don't have kids when they have important family issues; like caring for aging parents or taking care of their own health problems. What about the employee with a severe illness he/she has no control over and must take time off work for? FMLA is unpaid, and employees can go bankrupt when they can't work because of personal illness.
All of these threads referencing cities/countries that have something you wish you had, there is one answer, check into citizenship to see how soon you can relocate. Keep in mind that the grass is always greener and you might be surprised on what goes with that paid leave. Here I found you a thread: //www.city-data.com/forum/europ...ng-sweden.html
That's a funny thread. Not only does the OP and America in general get bashed mercilessly in that thread, the OP is often told to go back to America if he doesn't like it. lol
I never said that. Do not put words in my mouth. I'm referencing "woman" because she would be the one to get the maternity leave.
Yes, the family should bear the responsibility. But in no scenario does a coworker or an employer have any responsibility for that decision.
Here's your original "well reasoned" post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise
Kind of funny, that you're calling for childless folks to consider others, and accuse them of being selfish, yet you have no words for the women that choose to have children and expect others to cater to them, and support them.
Isn't it the woman having the child that has the biggest "what's in it for me?" attitude. And no, we don't live in a collective, we live in a country where the individual has rights.
And like a typical liberal, you decide that a childless worker that has a problem with a woman with a child stealing from them, and make the instant leap to "you want women to give birth in a field". Show me where I said anything remotely like that?
Nice try I didn't have to put words in your mouth to make you look bad or misogynistic.
Leave for children is not about freeloading women, it's about support for families (including children and fathers). It's about supporting and encouraging those parents to stay employed to support children by having a job to return to. Your welfare system in the U.S. is where you can rant and rave about "freeloading".
Whether you choose to have kids or not, your mom did, so in one sense this is about everyone.
Again, paid leave is a more complicated issue even in the countries that provide it but let's be clear, the rate of education accomplishment, child poverty and incarceration in the U.S. (and other countries) can support a strong economic rationale for supporting children in their first months of life and modelling working hard to get ahead.
Note: I also agree with Scooby about making elder care leave available along the same lines.
Kind of funny, that you're calling for childless folks to consider others, and accuse them of being selfish, yet you have no words for the women that choose to have children and expect others to cater to them, and support them.
Isn't it the woman having the child that has the biggest "what's in it for me?" attitude. And no, we don't live in a collective, we live in a country where the individual has rights.
And like a typical liberal, you decide that a childless worker that has a problem with a woman with a child stealing from them, and make the instant leap to "you want women to give birth in a field". Show me where I said anything remotely like that?
Well we now know that both your sense of humour and your moral imperatives are warped.
You have no idea how stupid you sound with your "typical liberal" silliness, do you?
For your edification some countries allow "family" maternity leave. The husband can be the stay at home caregiver for the newborn; that must really confuse the heck out of ones such as yourself with your stupid "stealing" references. As is typical of your kind you have an inflated opinion of your worth to any modern company and characterize it as stealing from others when those others perform your job for you when you're off ill for example. Cripes it boggles the mind how idiotic some people can be.
Companies allowing this since the late 50's had no problems until greed came along to state that in order to compete with other third world counties, we've got to reduce ourselves to third world status.
Now that is abject stupidity in a nutshell. You should be proud.
It's not a war against families, it's a war on American culture.
The 1-2% believes Americans are too lazy. They see that immigrants dying to come here and work for free and Americans want 4 weeks paid vacation and bonuses paid quarterly. The rich are used to visiting 3rd world countries and get great services for peanuts due to great US exchange rates.
Someone like Mark Zuckerberg of Facebook figures he's doing a good deed by using his powers to try to push for H1B1 abuses so the US can take more immigrants in without going throw the usual immigrant paths. So that Facebook can use more underpaid immigrants and hire no Americans to do the work other than overpaid management to keep spinning the books.
What he rich and elite wants is to pay less for everything, it's the capitalist way.
In many countries, the company doesn't pay. The government does. Why? Because it benefits the country to have babies get a good start in life and bond with mom and dad, get situated in a good day care later, get breast fed, etc.
Even China...not the bastion of human rights of the world, for sure....even China's govt requires mandatory paid maternity leave for the mother. It's a bare minimum, though. Three months. What the U.S. makes large cos. give moms. China allows a couple of weeks for dads, I think. And China allows 1 hr off each work day for breastfeeding for one year, OR allowance of that pay, set aside for the future. Also...China does not allow a pregnant or new mother to be fired. That allows for stability in the country and the family at a particularly sensitive time that would impact the most vulnerable among us...the infants.
So a pregnant woman is protected from losing her job for about 2 years....from during pregnancy to a year after birth. She's also protected to a similar extent for abortions/miscarriages. (I think back to my miscarriages.....I took one sick day off, and even then, got a call from my boss to talk about work; he thought I was goofing off.)
That's even worse IMO. As a consumer you may or may not be supporting a company that provides maternity leave. But with government supplying that subsidy, there will be no doubt if you are a law-abiding tax payer. You will in effect be paying for someone else's children whether you like it or not.
Look at the denial in this thread. This is why we'll never have the things they do. We're too worried about that CEO getting his 400x higher wage than the average person. No vision, no care for the very foundation of our society. This is why career women don't have kids but the jobless white trash have many.
Too true. I know so many women who have had to resort to expensive and/or invasive fertility treatments in order to have children because they had to put in so many years at company X to become indispensable so they wouldn't get canned right after returning from maternity leave.
Regardless, it still happened to a couple of them.
I know one woman who quit a private sector job and got a job teaching just so she wouldn't have to worry about losing everything if she wanted to have a baby. She finally had #1 at 40. Another woman I know just had #1 at 42.
This is supposed to be an equal opportunity country. Everyone is to be treated equal. No one should be given special treatment, if it is not available to others. Discrimination is illegal in this country.
What is being offered to people not having a baby, to be equal to paid maternity leave. Without making it equal for all, then paid maternity leave is discrimination against the ones not having children. It is illegal to discriminate against women, offering them less advantages than is being given to men.
Then using the same theory, it should be illegal to offer a woman having a baby paid maternity leave, when not offering a way to take a few months off with pay for man so as not to be discriminating against men, or women not having a baby.
I can see it from both sides, having a child is not a right and some businesses may be burdened (current maternity leave only affects businesses with greater than 50 employees).
If paid leave is mandated to companies, they will just reduce overall pay in order to compensate for the difference.
I know if I owned a company, this would affect who I hired. If you're a young woman, and I was forced to give you six paid months, or more, off each time you had a child, your odds of getting hired by me will be extremely low - practically zero.
This is supposed to be an equal opportunity country. Everyone is to be treated equal. No one should be given special treatment, if it is not available to others. Discrimination is illegal in this country.
What is being offered to people not having a baby, to be equal to paid maternity leave. Without making it equal for all, then paid maternity leave is discrimination against the ones not having children. It is illegal to discriminate against women, offering them less advantages than is being given to men.
Then using the same theory, it should be illegal to offer a woman having a baby paid maternity leave, when not offering a way to take a few months off with pay for man so as not to be discriminating against men, or women not having a baby.
You can't treat men and women equally when it comes to having a baby because only one of us can actually carry, give birth to, and nurse a baby: women.
Women aren't asking for special treatment. We're asking for fair treatment given the biological burden on US to give birth to children.
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I didn't have to put words in your mouth to make you look bad or misogynistic. 
