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Old 07-02-2020, 01:52 AM
 
Location: interior Alaska
6,895 posts, read 5,858,131 times
Reputation: 23410

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaOfGrass View Post
I admit I'm no expert on equine sports, and I agree the racehorses' overall treatment from start to finish is abusive, including everything you mentioned, as well as drugging them. But proponents seem to keep saying that, that it's not inherently dangerous, that they just need to take measures for the surfaces to be safer, etc., yet the horses are endlessly being vanned off dead or to be euthanized left and right.
Well, at this point I suspect the major tracks themselves are about as safe as it's possible to make them. (It's very true that uneven, excessively hard or soft, or slippery tracks have been a major cause of injuries historically, but there've been huge improvements in that area.) They could perhaps be a bit more standardized, but hey. The thing is, a healthy, sound, well-structured, young horse does not have a heart attack or break a leg while galloping full-out for a few minutes on an even surface. The frequency of those incidents is a sign that something is terribly wrong with the industry (I'd contrast such breakdowns with real accidents, like horses colliding, which are scary but less common and come down more to momentary jockey error or just bad luck). The changes they'd need to make to make racing reasonably safe would make horses less competitive and less profitable, which is why they haven't happened yet, for example:
-Emphasize health and soundness when selectively breeding, even at the expense of speed
-Allow horses to physically mature before working them hard, let alone racing them
-Err on the side of caution with regard to recovery time
-Better gradual and consistent physical conditioning programs
-Stricter regulation of meds that mask lameness and/or encourage a horse to overexert itself

Additionally, there needs to be greater accountability in the horse racing industry for what happens to less successful horses when their careers are over (or never get off the ground in the first place). Sending them off to Mexico or Canada to be slaughtered isn't acceptable.
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Old 07-02-2020, 03:13 AM
 
Location: So Cal
19,400 posts, read 15,227,885 times
Reputation: 20352
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostnip View Post
Well, at this point I suspect the major tracks themselves are about as safe as it's possible to make them. (It's very true that uneven, excessively hard or soft, or slippery tracks have been a major cause of injuries historically, but there've been huge improvements in that area.) They could perhaps be a bit more standardized, but hey. The thing is, a healthy, sound, well-structured, young horse does not have a heart attack or break a leg while galloping full-out for a few minutes on an even surface. The frequency of those incidents is a sign that something is terribly wrong with the industry (I'd contrast such breakdowns with real accidents, like horses colliding, which are scary but less common and come down more to momentary jockey error or just bad luck). The changes they'd need to make to make racing reasonably safe would make horses less competitive and less profitable, which is why they haven't happened yet, for example:
-Emphasize health and soundness when selectively breeding, even at the expense of speed
-Allow horses to physically mature before working them hard, let alone racing them
-Err on the side of caution with regard to recovery time
-Better gradual and consistent physical conditioning programs
-Stricter regulation of meds that mask lameness and/or encourage a horse to overexert itself

Additionally, there needs to be greater accountability in the horse racing industry for what happens to less successful horses when their careers are over (or never get off the ground in the first place). Sending them off to Mexico or Canada to be slaughtered isn't acceptable.
But that was kind of my point, that this is not just horses (or dogs) "running in a big circle on a well-groomed surface." It's obvious that they won't make, and aren't making these changes for that very reason, that it's not profitable.

Have you worked in this field in some capacity?
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Old 07-02-2020, 04:47 AM
 
Location: interior Alaska
6,895 posts, read 5,858,131 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaOfGrass View Post
But that was kind of my point, that this is not just horses (or dogs) "running in a big circle on a well-groomed surface." It's obvious that they won't make, and aren't making these changes for that very reason, that it's not profitable.
Yeah, IMO major change will only come if it's mandated and those mandates are enforced. Racing could be made much more humane, if not exactly safe - all equestrian activities have inherent risk - but everyone would have to be forced to change at once so it's an even playing field, as no active racing stable is about to volunteer to be a consistent loser. That's the death of their business, and they have livelihoods riding on it, as well as people who depend on them. The people who have enough of a serious moral problem leave the industry, or don't get into it in the first place, so their influence is largely lost. What's left are the people who are willing to make compromises to be competitive. I'm not minimizing the real love many racehorse breeders, owners, trainers, managers, vets, etc. have for the animals they work with, but IMO the bottom line is that they can't both do what's best practice for horses, and be competitive in the current industry.

Quote:
Have you worked in this field in some capacity?
Not in Thoroughbred racing but in other equine activities and sports in a few different roles. Ages ago, now, but I try to keep up on the gossip, lol.
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Old 07-02-2020, 07:11 AM
 
50,723 posts, read 36,431,973 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostnip View Post
I mean, there are other equine sports that are a lot more inherently dangerous than running in a big circle on a well-groomed surface, but we don't see those horses routinely keeling over dead or injured. I think the difference with racing is that breeding, training, handling and vetting processes sacrifice health and soundness in order to win earlier and more often. I mean, they're racing hard at an age where a dressage prospect might just be starting under saddle. Many other disciplines, you're looking to get 20+ years out of that horse, and they're managed accordingly...race horses, the industry chews up in a few years, and either throws them away or sets them to breeding, depending on whether they were winners or not.
It’s not always well groomed either though. They race in heavy rain when the track is nothing but mud, too. I’d imagine there are more calls and broken legs in that weather.

But even those who don’t break bones are sent to slaughter the second they stop winning, enduring a long and tortuous ride to Mexico packed in trucks without water, since they made it illegal to slaughter horses for met here. People fought for that law thinking they were helping the horses, and then of course the owners found loopholes and the poor things suffer more than ever. The racing dogs deemed unworthy are killed right at the tracks at the end of the day, injected and tossed into trash bags.
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Old 07-02-2020, 07:27 PM
 
Location: So Cal
19,400 posts, read 15,227,885 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostnip View Post
Yeah, IMO major change will only come if it's mandated and those mandates are enforced. Racing could be made much more humane, if not exactly safe - all equestrian activities have inherent risk - but everyone would have to be forced to change at once so it's an even playing field, as no active racing stable is about to volunteer to be a consistent loser. That's the death of their business, and they have livelihoods riding on it, as well as people who depend on them. The people who have enough of a serious moral problem leave the industry, or don't get into it in the first place, so their influence is largely lost. What's left are the people who are willing to make compromises to be competitive. I'm not minimizing the real love many racehorse breeders, owners, trainers, managers, vets, etc. have for the animals they work with, but IMO the bottom line is that they can't both do what's best practice for horses, and be competitive in the current industry.



Not in Thoroughbred racing but in other equine activities and sports in a few different roles. Ages ago, now, but I try to keep up on the gossip, lol.
Again, though, that's what I'm saying, racing is inherently risky. They're running at, literally, breakneck speed, so one collision, trip, whatever, they're down and break something, and boom, they're done. Euthanized. Even if they were treated humanely, which, like you said, I don't even see happening.

Yes, I've posted before about people leaving the business because their conscience won't let them continue, and some also speak out publicly about what's happening.

I'm sure there are people involved who do love and care for their horses. Also, I admit my parents took us to the races, and we loved it. It's thrilling. The old cliche about them thundering down the track. They're beautiful. But I'm an adult now and I realize that my pleasure is not worth their pain.

Anyway, thanks for the discussion.
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Old 10-03-2020, 03:56 PM
 
Location: So Cal
19,400 posts, read 15,227,885 times
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A message on Preakness Day:

Quote:
October 3, 2020

To You, the Bettor

A plea, on Preakess Day…

To those who wager on horseracing, we implore you to reconsider. And ultimately, you hold all the cards – no more bets, no more races; no more races, no more kills. And – no more abusing unformed bodies; no more extreme, relentless confinement; no more whipping; no more drugging and doping; no more buying and selling and trading and dumping. No more auctions, no more kill-buyers, no more transport trucks, no more abattoirs. No more maiming, destroying; pain, suffering. No more.

In a landscape that abounds with other gambling options – casinos, lotteries, real sports involving autonomous human beings – hasn’t the time at long last arrived to let the racing horse be? You, the bettor, have within the capacity for mercy. We ask only that you exercise it. Please. For the horses.
https://horseracingwrongs.org/2020/1...ou-the-bettor/
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Old 10-03-2020, 07:48 PM
 
1,994 posts, read 1,258,996 times
Reputation: 863
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaOfGrass View Post
My cousin is a gambler on horses. He goes to the track all the time, supposedly to enjoy himself. I am going to copy some of these posts and give them to him when I see him. Sad as they are, they are very enlightening and upsetting. Often people (the public like me) don't see what goes on behind the scenes. After all, the Kentucky Derby is known for women wearing stylish hats. Sad, isn't it.
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Old 10-03-2020, 07:52 PM
 
Location: San Diego, Ca/ SLO county Ca
798 posts, read 502,361 times
Reputation: 974
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindi Waters View Post
My cousin is a gambler on horses. He goes to the track all the time, supposedly to enjoy himself. I am going to copy some of these posts and give them to him when I see him. Sad as they are, they are very enlightening and upsetting. Often people (the public like me) don't see what goes on behind the scenes. After all, the Kentucky Derby is known for women wearing stylish hats. Sad, isn't it.
Like everything in The Game of Life Karma will Prevail

Keep Calm and Carry On

No Need To try to feel like you need to Intervene

The Universe and the Spirits are going to fix it

Rome was not Built in a day.
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Old 10-03-2020, 09:36 PM
 
Location: So Cal
19,400 posts, read 15,227,885 times
Reputation: 20352
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindi Waters View Post
My cousin is a gambler on horses. He goes to the track all the time, supposedly to enjoy himself. I am going to copy some of these posts and give them to him when I see him. Sad as they are, they are very enlightening and upsetting. Often people (the public like me) don't see what goes on behind the scenes. After all, the Kentucky Derby is known for women wearing stylish hats. Sad, isn't it.
Exactly. And mint juleps.
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Old 10-10-2020, 03:34 PM
 
Location: So Cal
19,400 posts, read 15,227,885 times
Reputation: 20352
Just another update. Four horses dead in five days, not necessarily on the track. All at Belmont Park.

https://horseracingwrongs.org/2020/1...es-at-belmont/
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