Why does dfw area get bashed so much? (Houston, Dallas: loan, bankrupt)

[NP78]

Originally Posted by lepoisson

I don't think that's it at all. There are many positives about the DFW area (mostly the great economy and lower cost of living), but it falls short compared to other metros around the same size. I like to compare Chicago and DFW because they have similar population numbers. However, one feels like a big city and the other just feels like massive suburbia with a lack of a "big city" feel.

When I moved here, I thought to myself "oh, DFW has around the same population as Chicago, so the cities should have a similar living experience". I was disappointed to learn that St Louis (a city with a much smaller population) has a more urban feel than DFW.

This area does grow on you though. The longer I live here, the more I enjoy having access to great restaurants, two airports, and just about any entertainment I could imagine. It's a shame that it's so hot here and that everything is so spread out (with traffic, getting to Dallas for dinner from here in Arlington is a nightmare). I can't believe that it's almost November, yet it's still almost 90 degrees here. After living here, I honestly don't think I could live in a city smaller than 300,000 people ever again.

I can't agree that St. Louis has a more urban feel than Dallas. I have spent a ton of time in St. Louis and the opposite is true (and for me, that is a plus for St. Louis). St. Louis metro overall is much less densely populated and less congested.

[Yellow pool of piddle]

Originally Posted by GordonBombay

Because who doesn't like endless strip malls and parking lots as far as the eye can see?

DFW has a lot of things going for it, minus the weather and the scenery, but the area needs a paradigm shift in the way it thinks about growth. Until then, it'll never be considered "world class" in my opinion.

Dallas has four monuments built to sell retail. How is that not world class? Why should any wealthy developer today be expected to spend their own money to build another legacy like Neiman Marcus, a Highland Park Village shopping center, a NorthPark Center Mall, or a Crescent Complex when the city is competing with them giving away hard earned tax payer money to greedy developers to build far less?

[Yellow pool of piddle]

Originally Posted by NP78

I can't agree that St. Louis has a more urban feel than Dallas. I have spent a ton of time in St. Louis and the opposite is true (and for me, that is a plus for St. Louis). St. Louis metro overall is much less densely populated and less congested.

Dense can be so dense that people stand on top of each other. If it doesn't have retail that works, how is it urban?

[Beardown91737]

Too much bragging. When I lived in the Chicago area and in Southern California, I had co-workers from DFW and other parts of TX who always had something to say about how much better things were done where they came from (sounds like a familiar Dallas forum complaint, doesn't it).

Then there are the Dallas Cowboys. I don't think the "America's Team" hype came from here. It was probably the New Yorkers at CBS who made that up, and it is partly true because most broadcasts in the west used to be Dallas, though other western teams have created their own territories and that leaves the Cowboys with only Las Vegas.. until the Raiders arrive.

Job poaching. Dallas and Texas are always looking for corporate relocations. They use the pitch of low taxes, which seem to be from oil revenue though there is no oil under Dallas. It may even be that these jobs are negative since transplants bring trailing spouses who are looking for work among the existing job pool.

Yes the stuff about being behind Chicago, Boston, NY, DC, and even LA in cultural facilities is true. So is the lack of scenery, and the reserviors don't compete with the oceans or the Great Lakes. OK two airports but that doesn't make you like Chicago or DC. NY has 4, the Bay Area in NoCal has 3, and SoCal has 5.

Culturally I see the effort, but catching up on concert halls and museums takes several decades.

[rantanamo]

good then we'll just wallow down here. Does it take every other thread to complain about what's not here? No one is forcing people here.

[Aceraceae]

Originally Posted by rantanamo

good then we'll just wallow down here. Does it take every other thread to complain about what's not here? No one is forcing people here.

This

[Yellow pool of piddle]

Originally Posted by Beardown91737

Too much bragging. When I lived in the Chicago area and in Southern California, I had co-workers from DFW and other parts of TX who always had something to say about how much better things were done where they came from (sounds like a familiar Dallas forum complaint, doesn't it).

Then there are the Dallas Cowboys. I don't think the "America's Team" hype came from here. It was probably the New Yorkers at CBS who made that up, and it is partly true because most broadcasts in the west used to be Dallas, though other western teams have created their own territories and that leaves the Cowboys with only Las Vegas.. until the Raiders arrive.

Job poaching. Dallas and Texas are always looking for corporate relocations. They use the pitch of low taxes, which seem to be from oil revenue though there is no oil under Dallas. It may even be that these jobs are negative since transplants bring trailing spouses who are looking for work among the existing job pool.

Yes the stuff about being behind Chicago, Boston, NY, DC, and even LA in cultural facilities is true. So is the lack of scenery, and the reserviors don't compete with the oceans or the Great Lakes. OK two airports but that doesn't make you like Chicago or DC. NY has 4, the Bay Area in NoCal has 3, and SoCal has 5.

Culturally I see the effort, but catching up on concert halls and museums takes several decades.

The Dallas formula for success was to build something special. Nieman Marcus built the Neiman Marcus department store in downtown Dallas in the same spirit of Marshall Fields in Chicago and the American Gordon Selfridge who built his department store in London. Similarly, the developers did lots of research before building Highland Park Village. Raymond Nasher didn't just build a similar legacy in NorthPark Center but he added an extensive amount of art to the formula. Caruth started getting into the competition among many others. Carloline Hunt Hill continued this legacy with her Crescent complex.

Read about Selfridge. He was an American who altered the way the English shopped. In the end, he lost his department store and walked the streets of London.

This is the real Dallas. Unfortunately, like most places around the world today, that prior spirit is being replaced with cheap tilt walled strip centers by developers who won't build anything without a handout of hard earned tax payer money from local governments.

[lepoisson]

Originally Posted by NP78

I can't agree that St. Louis has a more urban feel than Dallas. I have spent a ton of time in St. Louis and the opposite is true (and for me, that is a plus for St. Louis). St. Louis metro overall is much less densely populated and less congested.

Urban feel isn't always related to population. Can you find anything in Dallas like in this image of St Louis? Remember that for a century, St Louis was one of the largest cities in the country. The city was built well before the days of the automobile, so it will be much similar to places like NYC and Chicago (basically more compact and closer together).

[EC2005]

Originally Posted by lepoisson

Urban feel isn't always related to population. Can you find anything in Dallas like in this image of St Louis? Remember that for a century, St Louis was one of the largest cities in the country. The city was built well before the days of the automobile, so it will be much similar to places like NYC and Chicago (basically more compact and closer together).

Much of St Louis is a dump. Sure, there are nice areas. There are cute areas. But you could say that about any major city. IMO, Dallas has much more to offer than St. Louis, especially on the job front.

I would not want to get lost driving in St. Louis.

[NP78]

Originally Posted by lepoisson

Urban feel isn't always related to population. Can you find anything in Dallas like in this image of St Louis? Remember that for a century, St Louis was one of the largest cities in the country. The city was built well before the days of the automobile, so it will be much similar to places like NYC and Chicago (basically more compact and closer together).

There are areas like that in Dallas, it's just that the developments are newer, but there are plenty of areas around Oak Lawn, East Dallas, Uptown, etc. with those types of dense developments.

Even in St. Louis, which is a much older city as you note, that type of development is a very small portion of the area. The majority of St. Louis metro is very suburban in nature and less dense than equivalent developments in DFW. Compare density of HP/UP to Ladue/Clayton for example. Much bigger lots and green space in Ladue/Clayton, despite being close to the city.

St. Louis definitely has more older neighborhoods with character than Dallas, but there is no way that St. Louis as a whole has a more urban feel than Dallas.