Are people delusional about Denver's climate? (bus, train, health)

[BIG CATS]

Originally Posted by SkyDog77

Facts>opinions

So this chart shows that Denver gets a couple more days here and there of sun. I wouldnt consider 2-3 days more of sun than NYC a huge difference. Definitely not enough to pull it out of gloomy winter status.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by sailelsa

I don't think you can choose one element of the climate and make a comparison. I think a great part of the midwest and Northeast are gray during the winter... Maybe Denver is slightly less gray - to me that does not mean that Denver is sunny during the winter - just cuz it is a little less gray than very gray places.

Again, during the summer it is beautifully sunny.

Slightly less gray? Seriously?

Pittsburgh has 3 clear days in January, 32% of possible sunshine, 94 hours.
Chicago has 7 clear days, 44% possible sunshine, 136 hours.
Denver has 10 clear days, 71% possible sunshine. 215 hours.
https://www.currentresults.com/Weath...ty-weather.php

[hiapr]

Originally Posted by SkyDog77

I only went to a public university so you'll have to forgive my incompetence here, but the statement I was refuting was that Denver was gray compared to the Midwest and northeast. My data showed that Denver has more sun than major cities in both regions. I would say that I conclusively proved that Denver is not more gray that the Midwest or northeast and in fact has more sunny days than any city listed.

While I appreciate the self-deprecating humor, your chart appeared to be in response to the entire portion of the reply that you intentionally highlighted in bold. Yes, you proved that Denver receives a lot more sunshine than Buffalo and slightly more sunshine than some midwestern cities and New York. If you would read the post from Sailelsa again you would see that they mentioned both Denver, the Midwest and the NE, but never said Denver was as gray or more gray than either of those regions. You proved a point that nobody was refuting.

Here is the quote you referenced:

"I have lived in Northeast and Upper Midwest Climates for over 30 years of my life - and I would say Denver is winter is anything but mild - Hard, Very Long, Cold, Gray and Harsh would be my description."

[sailelsa]

Originally Posted by Katarina Witt

Slightly less gray? Seriously?

Pittsburgh has 3 clear days in January, 32% of possible sunshine, 94 hours.
Chicago has 7 clear days, 44% possible sunshine, 136 hours.
Denver has 10 clear days, 71% possible sunshine. 215 hours.
https://www.currentresults.com/Weath...ty-weather.php

I don't know what you are talking about... Haven't you heard it's always sunny in Philadelphia?

[sailelsa]

But seriously, I don't think comparing Denver to some really cloudy places like Pittsburgh, is a way to say that it is actually sunny there. I mean Pittsburgh is one of the cloudiest places in the USA during winter - I went to Pitt for undergrad and grad and although I LOVE the 'burgh! I don't think I'd live there again for that reason.

And, I don't think it is fair to look at a single aspect of weather - if you look at this, https://www.currentresults.com/Weath...est-cities.php, Denver is in the top 6 snowiest cities. The snow does eventually melt, but because of the endless cycles of black ice, slush and mud it creates - I don't find that a positive. It does warm up for it to melt, but the nights are absolutely frigid most of the time with an average January low of 17 degrees. Denver also is in top 3 major cities USA to be the coldest as far as number of days per year under 0 degrees Fahrenheit. https://www.currentresults.com/Weath...est-cities.php

Just like the above statement does not give the full picture, it cherry picks stats, neither does any other cherry picking of stats. I truly think that one has to come experience the winter for a full month to know if it will work for you. Even then, better hope that month was an accurate picture of winter. I came for week in winter, a week in the early fall and a week in the summer before I moved here and I did not get a good idea of what it was really like until after I moved.

[caverunner17]

Originally Posted by sailelsa

And, I don't think it is fair to look at a single aspect of weather - if you look at this, https://www.currentresults.com/Weath...est-cities.php, Denver is in the top 6 snowiest cities. The snow does eventually melt, but because of the endless cycles of black ice, slush and mud it creates - I don't find that a positive. It does warm up for it to melt, but the nights are absolutely frigid most of the time with an average January low of 17 degrees. Denver also is in top 3 major cities USA to be the coldest as far as number of days per year under 0 degrees Fahrenheit. https://www.currentresults.com/Weath...est-cities.php

I'll compare Littleton, CO to Naperville, IL where I grew up and lived for 25 years.

Format is HIGH/LOW - SNOWFALL(inches)

November
Naperville 48/30 - 1.4"
Littleton 51/22 - 12.2"

December
Naperville 34/19 - 7.5"
Littleton 43/15 - 12.7"

January
Naperville 30/15 - 10"
Littleton 44/15 - 8.9"

February
Naperville 35/18 - 7"
Littleton 47/19 7.8"

March
Naperville 47/27 - 3.7"
Littleton 53/28 - 11.9"


All in all, with the exception in November, the lows are about the same between the suburbs of IL and the suburbs of Denver. The highs in December - Feb are 10+ deg warmer (in the case of Jan/Feb it's 12+) in Littleton than Naperville. Littleton gets about 1.8x as much snow as Naperville.


What do I make of this? There's plenty of days in the winter on the front range that are significantly above freezing. When it snows, it tends to stick and accumulate more than in IL.

IL has a period of about 3 months that constantly stays at freezing or below. So yes, while IL doesn't have the melt-freeze cycle that CO has, it has the "stuck with dirty half-frozen "snow"" symptom for most of winter which basically kills all outdoor activities -- not enough to XC ski, not melted enough to bike or run on the trails.

[Mezter]

Originally Posted by sailelsa

LOL! First of all, for Denver winter - you have to add in October, March and April (and some part of May) - which you do not have to do in many locals in the USA!

Okay, I'm done with people acting like it's constantly snowing from October to May. Just because there is a chance that it can snow during that time period doesn't mean it's 7 months of winter (as much as y'all want it to be). Usually it will snow a day or two and not do it again for weeks. Trees still start to grown back in March/April and the weather isn't constantly cold around that time at all. Idk why anyone is using Denver's long snow period as a reason why the climate isn't mild.

I'd take a long snow period with snow spread out rather than a 4-5 month period of constant cold, gloomy skies and snow on the ground.

Originally Posted by BIG CATS

Every city has winter by definition. A mild winter would be PHX or Miami, IMO. Denver has a full-blown winter with snow and ice and blizzards.

Sorry, but those cities don't have real winters. Denver has a mild winter for an actual 4 season climate

[Katarina Witt]

^^I agree with Metzer.

Originally Posted by hiapr

While I appreciate the self-deprecating humor, your chart appeared to be in response to the entire portion of the reply that you intentionally highlighted in bold. Yes, you proved that Denver receives a lot more sunshine than Buffalo and slightly more sunshine than some midwestern cities and New York. If you would read the post from Sailelsa again you would see that they mentioned both Denver, the Midwest and the NE, but never said Denver was as gray or more gray than either of those regions. You proved a point that nobody was refuting.

Here is the quote you referenced:

"I have lived in Northeast and Upper Midwest Climates for over 30 years of my life - and I would say Denver is winter is anything but mild - Hard, Very Long, Cold, Gray and Harsh would be my description."

Slightly more than some midwestern cities and New York? Here are the percents of sunshine in several midwestern cities and New York in January, from my previous link:

Cleveland: 31% (Less than half of Denver's)
Cincinnati: 33% (Ditto)
Detroit: 40% (56% of what Denver gets, slightly more than half)
Indianapolis: 40% (Ditto)
Chicago: 44% (61% of Denver's)
Milwaukee: 44% (Ditto)
St. Louis: 50% (70% of what Denver gets)
New York: 51% (71% of Denver's)
Minneapolis: 53% (75% of Denver's)
Kansas City: 58% (81% of Denver's)

Denver: 71%

Originally Posted by sailelsa

But seriously, I don't think comparing Denver to some really cloudy places like Pittsburgh, is a way to say that it is actually sunny there. I mean Pittsburgh is one of the cloudiest places in the USA during winter - I went to Pitt for undergrad and grad and although I LOVE the 'burgh! I don't think I'd live there again for that reason.

And, I don't think it is fair to look at a single aspect of weather - if you look at this, https://www.currentresults.com/Weath...est-cities.php, Denver is in the top 6 snowiest cities. The snow does eventually melt, but because of the endless cycles of black ice, slush and mud it creates - I don't find that a positive. It does warm up for it to melt, but the nights are absolutely frigid most of the time with an average January low of 17 degrees. Denver also is in top 3 major cities USA to be the coldest as far as number of days per year under 0 degrees Fahrenheit. https://www.currentresults.com/Weath...est-cities.php

Just like the above statement does not give the full picture, it cherry picks stats, neither does any other cherry picking of stats. I truly think that one has to come experience the winter for a full month to know if it will work for you. Even then, better hope that month was an accurate picture of winter. I came for week in winter, a week in the early fall and a week in the summer before I moved here and I did not get a good idea of what it was really like until after I moved.

I was responding to a post about sunny days.

[maciesmom]

Originally Posted by Mezter

Okay, I'm done with people acting like it's constantly snowing from October to May. Just because there is a chance that it can snow during that time period doesn't mean it's 7 months of winter (as much as y'all want it to be). Usually it will snow a day or two and not do it again for weeks. Trees still start to grown back in March/April and the weather isn't constantly cold around that time at all. Idk why anyone is using Denver's long snow period as a reason why the climate isn't mild.

I'd take a long snow period with snow spread out rather than a 4-5 month period of constant cold, gloomy skies and snow on the ground.


Sorry, but those cities don't have real winters. Denver has a mild winter for an actual 4 season climate

Agreed.

[hiapr]

Originally Posted by Katarina Witt

^^I agree with Metzer.


Slightly more than some midwestern cities and New York? Here are the percents of sunshine in several midwestern cities and New York in January, from my previous link:

Cleveland: 31% (Less than half of Denver's)
Cincinnati: 33% (Ditto)
Detroit: 40% (56% of what Denver gets, slightly more than half)
Indianapolis: 40% (Ditto)
Chicago: 44% (61% of Denver's)
Milwaukee: 44% (Ditto)
St. Louis: 50% (70% of what Denver gets)
New York: 51% (71% of Denver's)
Minneapolis: 53% (75% of Denver's)
Kansas City: 58% (81% of Denver's)

Denver: 71%

I was replying to the chart posted by SkyDog that referenced sunny and partly sunny days, not % of sunshine. You then took that out of context by comparing Denver to cities that weren't referenced in the chart just to make your own point.

You have no argument from me that Denver is sunnier than a lot of the country, but it's not the as sunny as much of the Southwest where 80-90% annual sunshine is fairly common (vs 69% annual sunshine in Denver https://www.currentresults.com/Weath...ne-by-city.php). If you are going to compare Denver to the most gloomy climates, it seems reasonable to also compare it to the most sunny climates. Denver falls somewhere in the middle.

I personally enjoy the winters here. I have family from the Southwest who won't even visit here in the winter. I can see how some people think the winters here are harsh. I don't think they are, but there are millions of people who would never consider living in a place that gets cold and snows and in their minds, "mild" is the last word they would use to describe winters here. We also have friends that moved here from Michigan and North Dakota that think the winters here are cake. It's all relative. I don't understand the defensive responses to people who post about the winters here not being mild.