Does anyone else cringe when you hear someone say I just bred my dog ? (vets, aggressive)

[Sam I Am]

Thank you, snofarmer, for a very in-depth look at what it takes to breed the best of the best.

I believe in rescue with all my heart, I do - I don't need, want and can't afford a $4K dog. Or a $2K dog, or a $1K dog. There are those who do and who work their dogs at whatever they were bred for, and I do not begrudge them a bit. I agree with Wildnfree that there is some confusion over the title "breeder". Some know the difference, some don't. COE is about the furthest thing you can get from a BYB.

I also agree with your assessment of AKC standards. If you do any research into it at all, you realize they would give papers to just about anything - and have. The AKC should most certainly not be used as the gold standard for breeding.

[snofarmer]

Thanks Sam,

Returns or those we get back because of deaths are sold at a discount that in some cases is not that much more than the fee you will pay at the shelter.

I have no problem with people going to a shelter.
We donate to our local animal allies organization.
My heart does go out to those animals.
We have fostered dogs and not all were gds.

But you have to educate/help people who may not have the resources to spay neuter and them. What do you about those who don't give a crap and let their animals get pregnant.

It has to be a multilevel approach.
If we adopted breeding regulations like the Germans do with their breed warden program and issued permits to breed you may start to get a handle on it, but I'll tell you this with all there regulations you still see BYBing

breed warden.
Duties of the Breed Wardens

The local breed warden is obliged to clear up any breeding questions the members within his local chapter have, and to consult on the breeding activity and the breed organization. Arising out of this is the obligation for the breed warden to constantly update his knowledge by participating in the “breed warden courses” which are regularly given by the Landesgruppe. The breed warden is particularly responsible for the care and record-keeping of litters in his region. The breed warden has to be first notified of a litter or pup in his jurisdiction no later than the 3rd day after the whelping, and must view the ***** from then on regularly, at least three times, to observe and take note of their appearance. The tattoo number of the dam is to be verified at this time.

The suitably care of the dam and pups is to be particularly considered during these visits and in the report.

These breed warden’s examinations are to be accommodated by the breeder; they also have to include suitably polite behavior.

The breed wardens have to supervise the breeding of German Shepherd Dogs within the sense and spirit of the breeding rules. They have to report violations against the breeding rules, as well as “wild” (unplanned) breeding, to the responsible Regional (Landesgruppe) breed warden.
The choice of which pups to submit to the nurse for raising, must be done at the latest by the 10th day if not more than eight puppies of the litter are retained by the mother. Puppies with any deformities, and such that have not appeared on further view to be viable or keep up with the littermates, are to be killed at the latest on the 11th day painlessly (and only by a doctor or a competent person) and only under anesthesia. In special cases the headquarters is to be tuned in or consulted.
For the betterment of the breed

Dogs with the following defects are not to be breed, for the betterment of the breed.
- poor/weak in character, biting and nervous dogs
- known “severe HD”
- unilateral and bilateral cryptorchids
- incorrect ear and/or tail faults
- any deformities
- tooth faults as follows:
- are missing:
1 premolar-3 and 1 further tooth
or 1 fang
or 1 premolar-4
or 1 molar-1
or 1 molar-2
or any 3 or more teeth.
(The absence of the molar-3 is of no consequence if such dogs have the original presence of the tooth proven and confirmed on the Ahnentafel.)
- considerable pigment faults, also blues
- long-coats, with or without noticeable undercoat
- tooth (bite) faults:
more than 2 mm overshot*
undershot
- over- and/or undersize by more than 1 cm:
Males 66 cm / ******* 61 cm max. (Kkl-2 possible if over 65/60 cm but not over the max.)
- ******* that have given birth three times with Caesarean (C-section)
- the pectineus muscle having been cut
4.

Surgical operations on a dog for the purpose of correction or for acquisition and/or improvement of a breed survey (examples: ears, tail, teeth, testicles) will result in a breeding prohibition and legal proceedings against the owners.

For the betterment of the breed.
SV Rules for Breeders and Breeding.
Read all the hoops we jump threw just to bring you a litter of pups.
SV Rules for Breeders and Breeding

I get a little worked up when some try to belittle us when they don't have a clue what we go threw to make sure what we do is for the LOVE and BETTERMENT of the BREED we chose to Breed and LOVE.

PS IF we don't make money at it we can't afford to uphold the regulations that make the breed better. A quality animal does not come cheaply and LOVE does not pay the bills.
It takes a lot of money and excellent dogs to be at the top and that is a reality.

[stan4]

Dang. Now I really want one of Snofarmer's dogs.
Except I am a collie enthusiast.

My smoothie's breeder is one of the good guys.
She stays with the dogs their whole lives.
Even though she's a thousand miles away, I want my next dog from her, too.

[Happy in Wyoming]

Originally Posted by snofarmer

The choice of which pups to submit to the nurse for raising, must be done at the latest by the 10th day if not more than eight puppies of the litter are retained by the mother. Puppies with any deformities, and such that have not appeared on further view to be viable or keep up with the littermates, are to be killed at the latest on the 11th day painlessly (and only by a doctor or a competent person) and only under anesthesia. In special cases the headquarters is to be tuned in or consulted.
For the betterment of the breed

For the betterment of the breed.
PS IF we don't make money at it we can't afford to uphold the regulations that make the breed better. A quality animal does not come cheaply and LOVE does not pay the bills.
It takes a lot of money and excellent dogs to be at the top and that is a reality.

Those are cold and mercenary words. But for him it's a business.

When it's not a business deal it's apparently a joke. The following thread is on the Cats subforum about feral cats dying in the flood waters in the labyrinth under New York City. That area extends for miles and is more than a hundred feet deep in large sections of it; there must have been thousands or even tens of thousands of deaths.

Originally Posted by =^..^=

I just saw read this sad news on my Facebook page. The flood waters came and they apparently had nowhere to go........

Originally Posted by snofarmer

Natural selection at work.

Breeders sell animals for over a thousand dollars. If a rescue group had stolen those "defective" puppies I'd happily give them a thousand dollar donation for one; I'd do the same for a suffering feral cat. And I know I'm not the only one on this forum who would.

[Caleb Longstreet]

Originally Posted by phonelady61

I was in the post office this morning and heard a lady tell a neighbor or friend i guess they were talking like old friends , Oh I just bred my dog and she had 8 pups !!! I so wanted to turn around and tell her You my dear are the reason dogs are dying in the shelters across america . I was so mad my husband turned around and told me not to say anything funny how this man knows me so well .. .

When I hear them say that down south, I'm terrified.....up north? Not so much...

[mishigas73]

Originally Posted by snofarmer

This it true, and more folks take poor care of something they got that was cheep.

You know, I was pretty much agreeing with you until I read this.

You breed dogs, put your heart in it, and work for the "betterment of the breed". That's great. But, to take this pretentious attitude?

My dog (and cat) were free. Found on the street. Frankly, I want to die and come back as either of them. I dare say that they are probably treated better than a lot of the dogs that you have sold. That may be just me...but I don't think so.

Just about everyone I have known in my life has treated their animals like gold, no matter if they paid $2000.00 for them, or got them free.

You seem to equate dollar amount spent to "worth" of the animal, and that's just sad to me. I shook my head after reading what you said about the cats in the NY subways. "Natural selection"? Really? My cat found me 12 years ago by crawling into the engine block of my car. I still shudder when I think of what may have happened to his littermates. Turns out he was probably the luckiest kitten in the city by choosing my car. He was lucky, his littermates might not have been. They may have been caught up in a rainstorm or hit by a car. Is that "natural selection"? No, it's not. It's people not being responsible pet owners.

I have no problems at all with people choosing to purchase a dog from a "responsible breeder". What I do have a problem with is the attitude that sometimes comes in that arena.

Originally Posted by snofarmer

Dogs from our kennel go from loved pets to police work to service dogs, 8 dogs at ground zero came from our kennels and you might have seen dogs and pups from our kennel in the movies.

And, that's fabulous. I know people who would probably love to get a dog from you, just so they can quote this when people ask where they got their dog from. These are also people who will absolutely *kill* to get a reservation at the hippest restaurant, or would pay through the nose to be at a fundraiser just so they can get a photo with X,Y or Z politician. They'd give you some pretty good referrals too.

But, you know what? These people are no "better" animal owners than those who would go to a shelter to get their pet.

If you can finagle someone to pay 8 grand for one of your animals, more power to you. From my perspective though, once the price becomes that high, it has become an issue of monetary gain, pure and simple.

Originally Posted by snofarmer

ps we would never advertise on CL nor would I recommend anyone buy from a CL add.

Nor would I, and I'm not even a "breeder".

[atina33]

There are far too many people in the breeding business, thus giving the reputable ones a bad rap.

Check out these two links:

A GSD rescue group which is at capacity and is turning would-be dog dumpers away daily:
German Shepherd Rescue | Southern California German Shepherd Rescue Burbank

And then go to CL and search for German Shepherd Puppies
los angeles pets classifieds - craigslist

[no kudzu]

which ones are prohibited? I will be happy to flag but not familiar with this site.

[atina33]

CL prohibits ("no animal sales or breeding...")

I actually removed my comment about flagging the breeder ads b/c then they'd be removed and my point wouldn't get through to some. (;
Unfortunately, even after CL removes prohibited ads, they crop up again and again...

[mishigas73]

"dog-dumpers"? Do you know the background of all of the people who surrender their dogs to this rescue?

Sorry, I was with you until I saw that phrase. So, no, the answer to your question is that we cannot all agree on this (or at least the way it's presented).