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In five years, when dogs are still dying in shelters, money is being spent trying to enforce spay/neuter and prevent breeding, tell me that you still fill that spay/neuter is the way. I think your thinking is a little out of whack. Please, respond to my questions I posted. Perhaps you can change my skewed way of thinking so I can open my eyes as wide as you and see how spay/neuter is the answer.. how many more years do dogs die in shelters before people see it is not really working on many levels. I am not saying it does not help at all. But I am saying, that the majority of dogs that die in shelters did not end up in the shelter because of an over population. Most, not all but the majority of the dogs that end up in the shelter are adult dogs, who did have a home.
Sure, getting rid of ways to get more dogs, will lower the over all population of dogs, when people no longer own dogs, no longer have changes in their life, and stop viewing dogs or cats like throw away items, you can spay and neuter till the cows come home and dogs will still die in shelters. Sad.
it wont let me rep alot of you but i wanted to say thank you to the SANE voices who understand the pet overpopulation problem has NOTHING to do with RESPONSIBLE breedrs and everythign to do with idiots and a throw away society!
I feel your "pain" SO many times I wanted to rep you and others but could not. However there were some awesome folks who repped for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SocalPitgal
I hate to disagree with you, but she is not the reason dogs are dying in shelters across America. As many years as people have been brainwashed to spay neuter, because there is a pet overpopulation, I realize it will take several years to change that way of thinking.
As hard as it is to believe, we need to have people breed their dogs. Unfortunately, dogs die. They get old the they die. They get sick and they die. Where will we get our next generations of dogs?
Do you realize how many dogs are bred by responsible breeders all across the country? There are hundreds of breeds of dogs and mixes in this country. Most of those breeds NEVER end up in a shelter. Look at all the dogs bred by irresponsible puppy mills, cute little Maltese and so many other toy breeds, the shelters are not full of these "over bred puppy mill breeds" either. What happens to them?
So, how is it that this person, who bred her dog and she homed the 8 puppies to responsible people who will keep the dog for the life of the dog and make sure it never goes to a shelter, how is she contributing to the dogs dieing in shelters?? Please, I would like to know.
Where do dogs in shelters come from?? Identify the source of the problem. We can stop breeding till we have no more dogs able to breed. The shelter will still have dogs that will have to die. I wish it was not that way. But really, somebody needs to breed. Her 8 puppies are not the problem.
Yeap, I agree People should start digging a little more, it can be very rewarding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by atina33
Your moniker is SoCalPitGal so you must know how many pits are euthanized at shelters. Imagine if there were suddenly no more pits being bred (temporarily), anyone wanting a pit would go to their local shelter and thus fewer pits would be euthanized.
Should be crystal clear now.
Should be......but the debris of breed restriction gets in the way. Can be quite difficult finding a place/insurance company to accept a "dangerous" breed."
Quote:
Originally Posted by phonelady61
I think your way of thinking is a little skewed..
What makes her way of thinking ( OPINION) skewed? Because she doesn't eat everything the masses throw out?
Please at least educate yourself on the "other side."
This is always going to be a touchy subject no matter what. However I do have a problem with people trying to dictate what I can/can't do with my animals. I prefer to purchase my pets many of my friends/co-workers prefer to adopt. When it all comes down to it we love/care our pets and despise those that don't. Those that abuse, recklessly breed, provide inadequate care, dispose of, or refuse to take any responsibility for their animals what so ever are the types of people that should be "targeted." IMO.
There are millions of dogs dying in shelters, but many more millions used to die in the 70's. It's true too many people give up on dogs too easily, but are the numbers of euthanasia down by several million a year because more people are taking responsibility for keeping their pets? I don't think so. Spaying and neutering your pet began to get widely promoted around that time, has been increasing to this day, and the numbers of pets dying has dropped. It's not the only solution to the problem, but it is a very important part of it.
Here's what happens to the lucky abandoned Maltese and other little breeds. The rescue groups really help. But for every dog from a breeder one dies in a pound.
I got a 9# ball of fluff from a pound. She may have been part Maltese. I found another one on a road at the edge of the Navajo Indian Reservation in Utah. She weighed 5# and was covered with ticks, starved, and was at the point of not eating. The hair on her tail had fallen out. Her teeth were black. I thought she was colored gray. She weighed 9# when she recovered. It turned out she was white with a few brown patches.
My pound fluffball was for my parents. Their dog, the dog of my late boyhood, had died three ywars earlier and they swore they'd never get another dog. My mother couldn't talk to anyone for a week after he died at age 16. Three years later my mother was dying of cancer and depressed. She'd often talk of our dog whom she still missed. At first she told me she couldn't take care of a dog but I told her and my father that she seemed to be house trained and was very sweet. The doctors had given my mother a few months at best. But she lived two years. That little dog from the pound was responsible; she always lay against my mother; she was her constant companion. My mother found a spark of happiness. After my mother died she was the only spark of joy for my father.
Here's what I got from a metasearch for Maltese rescue. There are plenty more in pounds When a breeder produces a litter of five there will be five dead pound dogs. Please don't buy a dog or cat from a breeder.
I would like to see some cited works from this claim. If you prefer to adopt that's fine, but please respect my ( or anyone else's) decision to purchase dog or cat.
I would like to see some cited works from this claim. If you prefer to adopt that's fine, but please respect my ( or anyone else's) decision to purchase dog or cat.
mod cut Your selling one of the dogs you breed removes one potential home for a pound dog. Breeders are complicit in the deaths of these dogs as are the purchasers unless the latter are unaware of the problem.
If you need a citation for my use of arithmetic I'm at a loss.
Last edited by Sam I Am; 10-30-2012 at 02:53 AM..
Reason: please - you've made your point, let's don't get down to rude.
mod cut Your selling one of the dogs you breed removes one potential home for a pound dog. Breeders are complicit in the deaths of these dogs as are the purchasers unless the latter are unaware of the problem.
If you need a citation for my use of arithmetic I'm at a loss.
Is it that hard to have civilized discussion/debate without getting personal?
Anyway I don't breed dogs as I stated numerous times on this thread and other related I purchase my animals from RESPONSIBLE/REPUTABLE breeders.
I'm just saying don't expect me to take your word for it without some type of cited works. The only time I've ever seen or heard such claims were through extremist animal rights. The ones that pretty much think that any animal ownership is cruel. There are good and bad owners, just as there are good/bad breeders. I find it very unfair to lump them all as "killers of shelter dogs." Again JMO.
wolves you are dead wrong.
Reputable breeders are not responsible for dogs or cats in shelters.
People want what they want. and if they want a dog from us, then great
we will continue to supply them with great dogs.
If they choose a shelter animal that is fine to.
freedom to choose.
People who buy from breeders be they reputable or not has nothing to do with it.
When folks stop dumping there dogs and cats for reason like, we just don't want it any longer or we moved and the new apartment complex does not allow dogs, we just let our dog and cat run at night
are the ones who are responsible for the animal being in the shelter
These folks are contributing to the problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow
When we no longer have millions of dogs and cats in shelters across the country, then we can discuss "reputable" breeding and the need for a "new generation".
Your logic is kin to if we no longer have garbage we will no longer have flys.
AS a breeder I have no responsibility for what a animal owner does with their animal.
I can require them to be returned, spayed or nurtured but I have no way to enforce it nor can I stop them from dumping them at a shelter.
Irresponsible animal owners are at fault.
It is like blaming car MFG for drunk driver deaths.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming
mod cut Your selling one of the dogs you breed removes one potential home for a pound dog. Breeders are complicit in the deaths of these dogs as are the purchasers unless the latter are unaware of the problem.
If you need a citation for my use of arithmetic I'm at a loss.
Here is a idea.
A minimum price of 1k for every dog or cat sold in a store or by a breeder or byb. This fee goes to support shelters, education, etc etc
You can not breed anything without a permit or license.
Enforced by veterinarians, usda`aphis, and the health Dept.
A fine of $?
When I sell a pup for 4k or more and talk with the prospective owner(s) for a hr or longer, I'm fairly sure they are committed to their new family member.
When I sell a pup for 4k or more and talk with the prospective owner(s) for a hr or longer, I'm fairly sure they are committed to their new family member.
Emphasis on "fairly" in the sentence above. People spend thousands of dollars on items all the time and then don't take proper care of them.
What I like about getting a dog from a rescue, IF it doesn't work out for the family, a reputable rescue will take the dog back. Not sure how many breeders will do that but I'm guessing it's a very very small minority.
($4k for a dog? That dog better be able to spin gold out of straw!)
Emphasis on "fairly" in the sentence above. People spend thousands of dollars on items all the time and then don't take proper care of them.
What I like about getting a dog from a rescue, IF it doesn't work out for the family, a reputable rescue will take the dog back. Not sure how many breeders will do that but I'm guessing it's a very very small minority.
($4k for a dog? That dog better be able to spin gold out of straw!)
Correct!
There's the KEY word.Reputable breeders WILL take a dog back under ANY situation. They are certainly not in the "very very small minority" however it does take some digging. The same when finding a reputable rescue.
That is IF the family takes the dog back at all...... Unfortunately people aren't what they seem to be. I've seen numerous postings of people adopting a dog/cat from a rescue, only to "re-home" them on CL. The same situation also happens when they purchase from a reputable breeder.
Both reputable breeders and rescues aren't always able to weed out those negligent people. Its possible to hold these people for violation of their contract but be prepared for a long process.
LOL your expecting too much for that price!
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People should start digging a little more, it can be very rewarding.
