Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It seems like I am the only one motivated to work and work overtime, including doing side businsess for future financial goals.
People just seem to only do Overtime when its needed but don't do it for the future needs. A lot of them don't trust the stock market and/or don't even know what 401K is.
Also, I am ALWAYS positive in my work and general in life but people think I am on drugs because I am always positive.
Any comments and suggestions?
After reading the post i would suggest your demeanor isnt as positive as you may think..
No, he asked for statistics that prove the middle class pays a greater percentage than the upper class. Dreaming up a perfect scenario that fits your argument does not provide those statistics, ..
\
Let me quote from your own link.
[Note: This very top income group actually has a lower average effective income tax rate than the rest of the top 1 percent of returns because these extremely high-income returns are more likely to have income from capital gains and dividends, which are typically taxed at lower rates.
The perfect scenario that I dreamed up actually fits every single taxpayer across the board. Capital gains taxes are ALWAYS at a lower rate than the marginal rate for ALL middle-income taxpayers.
If we both earn a basic $45K, and you make another $5,000 in capital gains and I make an extra $5,000 by working overtime, in EVERY case, I will pay more tax on my 5K than you will (unless other highly unusual circumstances enter the picture). I did not dream that up to fit a special case. It applies across the board to all tax filers.
Now, back to the OP, which is about whether people are motivated to work. We have two separate tax structures. The basic income tax, which is progressive, and the capital gains tax, which is not. The progressive tax on worked income does not motivate people to work, because the gains from working more or harder are taxed at a higher rate. However, the earnings from capital gains are not progressive, which motivates people to invest, not to work.
But it exactly those well-off investors, benefiting from the tax advantage of not working, who are doing most of the whining about people being unmotivated to endure the tax penalty for working.
A WalMart employee who works an extra shift on Sunday for $75 will pay more tax on that than a fat cat who cashes in a CD that has just paid $75 in interest. Is that what you all mean by "not motivated to work"?
I absolutely LOVE it when people who worked not nearly as hard as me moans and whines about how life "isn't treating them fairly." Get over it!
Let me go into detail:
While you guys, as kids, were out playing around and horsing around, I was reading and balancing my play time with study to get GOOD GRADES and GET AHEAD OF MY PEERS. While you were listening to grunge music, fitting a social fad of "being a downer, man" and wearing baggy pants, I was studying what would become my life passion (aerospace engineering and math). While you were in college pursuing a ridiculous and bottom of the barrel type of major, like 20th Century Women's Struggles or Home Economics or Communications, and getting blasted by weed, booze, and partying every day from Thursday to Monday, I was busting my rear off studying 60 hours a week (closer to 80 my second to last semester). AND I still found time to hang out with friends and find girlfriends and grow as a person.
And I found internships in meaningful job positions to get experience prior to my ever having joined my current employer.
And I didn't take a "year to find myself" like a lot of people who realized too late that they have a worthless major and threw their entire lives to the wind from childhood to today do. I graduated and about three weeks later, after taking Christmas and New Year off, I started work in a highly interesting and cool job.
People who work damned hard to get to where they are at and then have more energy to start their own business is beyond me and I admire such people. I just wish that everyone else who SLACKED OFF THROUGH CHILDHOOD AND IN COLLEGE WOULD ADMIRE THEM TOO FOR THEIR HARD WORK. That's the reason why the US is losing ground economically, not because we have a lack of means or ability, but because most people are too freaking lazy. There's a reason why illegal immigrants come to this country, BECAUSE NOBODY WANTS TO BE THE GARDENER, THE PLUMBER, THE LANDSCAPING GUY, THE SEWER CLEANER, THE GARBAGEMAN, ETC. EVERYONE FEELS ENTITLED TO A LIFESTYLE WHICH THEY THEMSELVES HAVEN'T WORKED FOR! Whatever happened to the phrase, "you reap what you sow?" If people would actually step down from their high horse and looked at life objectively, you would see probably at least half of all folks who are currently unemployed actually find a job.
And it pisses me off to no end that I, having worked damn hard, and saved by renting, now has to bail out my fellow lazy countrymen who had kids way too early, didn't do their homework into how much they can afford, didn't think on their own about the consequences of paying 50%+ of their income on housing, and then has the audacity to say "dur hurr, I was FOOLED by the MEANIE BANKS!" No you were an idiot. Get over it. You deserve it.
So yes, do continue posting how unfair life is and how unfair it is that you don't get paid $400k a year for having wasted your life away on frivolous pursuits. Do continue posting how the rich "are all lucky and deserve to pay higher taxes." Do continue revealing how ignorant you all are. It is making me laugh my rear off.
Edit: OK maybe I was unfair there a tad. But still, only about 10% of all the "hard luck cases" are really that. The rest are lazy good for nothings who are leeches on society.
Last edited by eskercurve; 02-13-2011 at 11:11 AM..
Eskercurve, let me see if I got this straight. All those dustbowl farmers who went broke when people like you foreclosed on their farms, 90% of them were just lazy slackers.
Everybody comes into the world with the same skillsets, and it was Einstein who developed the theory of relativity because he worked hard enough at it. Instead of my contemporary grandparents, who had the ability and could have been Einstein if they had just worked harder. Right?
[Note: This very top income group actually has a lower average effective income tax rate than the rest of the top 1 percent of returns because these extremely high-income returns are more likely to have income from capital gains and dividends, which are typically taxed at lower rates.
Okay, that quote is referring to the top 0.1% of taxpayers paying less than the top1%. Obviously both groups are upper class and both groups pay a higher percentage in taxes than the middle class, so doesn't help any argument that the middle class pays more. Here if it will make you feel better I'll include this very tiny group that you are now latching onto:
Average Tax Rate for 2008 returns:
Top 0.1% - 22.7% <- jtur88's new exciting data point!
Top 1% - 23.27%
Top 5% - 20.70%
Top 10% - 18.71%
Top 25% - 15.68%
Top 50% - 13.65%
Bottom 50% - 2.59%
There you go, does that now make it appear the middle class pay a higher percentage of their income to taxes? Nope. If you'd like to start a thread that the ultrarich pay slightly less taxes than the just rich the "new topic" button is somewhere on your page.
Quote:
The perfect scenario that I dreamed up actually fits every single taxpayer across the board. Capital gains taxes are ALWAYS at a lower rate than the marginal rate for ALL middle-income taxpayers.
No, the perfect scenario you dreamed up has upper class earners having all their income derived from capital gains. Obviously this isn't the case, it is the exception, and would be a poor source to draw conclusions from.
Let me ask you straight up yes/no question, looking at the tax burdens listed above (including your new top 0.1%) would you state that the average middle class person pays a higher percentage to income taxes? Just curious how far your delusions will lead.
Let me ask you straight up yes/no question, looking at the tax burdens listed above (including your new top 0.1%) would you state that the average middle class person pays a higher percentage to income taxes? Just curious how far your delusions will lead.
Hnsq's question was asked in the context of the progressiveness of the tax burden. My reply was couched in terms that would reflect the fact that the income tax is a great deal less progressive than the rich claim it is, because the principle is corrupted by the flat-tax on capital gains, an advantage primariily enjoyed by the upper class.
It doesn't matter if your figures are exactly correct or not (although they appear to be) in the context of the discussion. It remains true that most people demanding a flat tax already have it, largely, and the middle class tax break through the progressive bracketing is significantly diluted.
Hnsq asked for statistics, but at no time in my reply did I indicate that I was proffering such statistics. I simply, "for starters" steered the discussion to matters that had relevancy to what we were talking about. Unless you think that what I included in my reply was the "statistic" that Hsnq had asked for.
I find it amusing (nothing amazes me anymore) that so many people who are not "very rich" are so militantly in favor of a tax structure that primarily benefits the "very rich".
Hnsq asked for statistics, but at no time in my reply did I indicate that I was proffering such statistics. I simply, "for starters" steered the discussion to matters that had relevancy to what we were talking about. Unless you think that what I included in my reply was the "statistic" that Hsnq had asked for.
I hear you man, you quoting his request for statistics before replying who'd a thunk you were replying to that? I mean hey what better way to respond to a request for statistics proving something than to instead provide an outlier example that runs counter to it eh?
Quote:
I find it amusing (nothing amazes me anymore) that so many people who are not "very rich" are so militantly in favor of a tax structure that primarily benefits the "very rich".
And I find it amusing that some are so narrow minded that they believe people injecting a little reality into their poorly presented arguments as representing some other extreme position. I've stated no position on benefiting anyone, was merely stomping on your ill-conceived defense of the position that middle class pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes than the lower class. This of course led to a pretty hilarious retard moment of you attempting to quote the stats of the top 0.1% versus the the top1% in support of that, thanks for that humor is always good.
It is surely a hard road to walk throwing off the "I could have been a millionaire but chose" vibe while constantly demonstrating bitterness/envy and attacks at those who achieve more than picking chicken out of the trashcan and walking across California to buy corn meal.
Well, what about the United States? We have the best of the best here.
Your original post is really not about about "the best of the best"; it's about the entire working population. That means there is an approximately normal distribution of intellect / performance around a mean level of achievement, which is the same for any other country in the world. The "best of the best" are just the top few percent of that distribution and are not representative of large majority of the workforce.
And I find it amusing that some are so narrow minded that they believe people injecting a little reality into their poorly presented arguments as representing some other extreme position. I've stated no position on benefiting anyone, was merely stomping on your ill-conceived defense of the position that middle class pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes than the lower class. This of course led to a pretty hilarious retard moment of you attempting to quote the stats of the top 0.1% versus the the top1% in support of that, thanks for that humor is always good.
It is surely a hard road to walk throwing off the "I could have been a millionaire but chose" vibe while constantly demonstrating bitterness/envy and attacks at those who achieve more than picking chicken out of the trashcan and walking across California to buy corn meal.
I find it amusing (not amazing, and certainly not responseworthy) that there are always a few jerks in every forum who have no interest at all in furthering the discussion, but only in trolling around and mean-spiritedly stalking a few other posters, throwing ad-hominem barbs at them, and raising attack points against them for things they said months or years ago in totally different forums on totally different subjects, as if they had any relevance in this one. Such posters don't even read with enough comprehension to distinguish between "defend" and "amplify".
I will avoid mentioning any names about any of the above, since there are several such offenders, but as for your post, "Stomping" was one of your exceedingly rare good choices of words, but I don't find it in keeping with the spirit of these discussions.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
