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As do I, because they choose to artificially inflate the scores, rather than actually increasing knowledge of what is being tested. So they score higher, but are they REALLY learning anything more? Doubt it.
unfortunately, you must do what everyone else does or you fall behind even if you are really making progress. My district spends a lot of money and time on test prep. One of the seminars our kids attend is titled "Three points in three hours" and is nothing but tips and tricks to taking the exams, however so many districts do this that you start out behind if you don't these days. It used to be people prepped to get ahead. Now you have to prep to keep up because everyone else does it.
People won't stop prepping for tests so we just have to bake that in to the school year so that everyone is on an even playing field.
I believe that you are wrong there. There are a few people of quality who decide to stay in the inner city despite the challenges. Personal safety is not always their motivation. I'm not saying that I'm great, but I do believe that I am damn good. I stay in the inner city because I believe that I make a difference in the lives of children who were born with fewer chances than those with a higher socioeconomic status. The problem is that we can't staff schools with missionaries. There aren't enough of us to go around.
I imagine you're right. I miss mattering to my students and if by some miracle I happen to learn to connect with the kids in Detroit and teach them, I will stay with them. I'm more likely to run back to the burbs if I can't do that than if I can. I mattered to the kids at the charter school. I don't matter where I am. Any old teacher can pass out A's like candy when you're given kids from the SES I teach. I could take them higher but they won't let me. That might jeopardize GPA's and GPA's are to be protected at all cost in my school.
Teaching is not forcing someone into learning something, it is a want and motivation must be on top since if you are reluctant to learn something you won’t know it, excellence from teachers is just additional.
Teaching is not forcing someone into learning something, it is a want and motivation must be on top since if you are reluctant to learn something you won’t know it, excellence from teachers is just additional.
This is what people don't get. Excellence in teaching is great when you have it but, like any profession, excellence is not required to get the job done right. What is required is a willing learner. Not an excellent willing learner, just a willing learner. Give me kids who want to learn and I will look like a superstar. Give me kids who do not want to learn and I look like the worst teacher in existence.
When we're talking in the teacher lounge about THAT class (we all get them), the same student names come up again and again and again. Did those students just happen to get all incompetent teachers this year? Or is it them? This year you can drop six names in the teacher lounge and all the teachers will cringe. Put all 6 in one class (two unlucky teachers have that this year) and you've got the class from hell. Not only is this group not learning, neither is anyone else in the class.
Unwilling learners is the biggest problem in education next to unhelpful admins who actually could do something to help teachers with the unwilling learners but don't. It's easier to just hammer the teacher on their evaluation for over use of the office because admins just want to make their own lives easier.
The problem with our education system is we tolerate the unwilling learner. We should be showing them the door. Education is a means to a better future. If you don't want it fine, but we should not allow you to take it away from someone else. Too many view education as something imposed upon them...they dream up conspiracy theories about how education is indoctrination into group think which couldn't be farther from the truth. The more educated you are, the better you are able to think on your own. The less educated you are, the more likely you will be to be a sheeple following anyone charismatic enough to get your vote.
But learning is not easy and in this day and age there's a lot to learn. It takes effort on the part of the learner to become an educated person. Most people are too lazy.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 01-02-2014 at 07:21 AM..
The problem with our education system is we tolerate the unwilling learner. We should be showing them the door. Education is a means to a better future. If you don't want it fine, but we should not allow you to take it away from someone else. Too many view education as something imposed upon them...they dream up conspiracy theories about how education is indoctrination into group think which couldn't be farther from the truth. The more educated you are, the better you are able to think on your own. The less educated you are, the more likely you will be to be a sheeple following anyone charismatic enough to get your vote.
But learning is not easy and in this day and age there's a lot to learn. It takes effort on the part of the learner to become an educated person. Most people are too lazy.
A-freaking-MEN on both points!!
I was a child prodigy in the Seventies...and back then, they had NO IDEA what to do with kids like me. So I sat in class bored off my ass, because they were teaching to the "dummies" everything I already knew. No, I did not think I was a genius...rather that everyone else around me was a dummy.
Of course, there WERE some dummies. And they drove me crazier than anything.
I am so glad NCLB had not yet been dreamed up! It was bad enough to be an excelling student back then, and feel yourself physically held back to let all the dummies catch up! Of course, I was bored, and so I was a troublemaker.
First, they stuck me in with slow learners and underachievers....the idea being I was supposed to help the teacher and tutor these kids! Do you want to take a guess at what a hell this was...becoming known to the worst element in school as an egghead??
Fortunately, someone finally got smart, and I was sent to a lab school attached to the University of Chicago at the age of ten. We lived at the school year round. We attended classes year-round. We were given whatever work we could handle and were constantly challenged.
I was there 3 1/2 years. I emerged from that with no further requirement for any public education. I chose to attend high school after I got out, just for the social experience - you do NOT get a lot of social skills when you are in a closed-environment school with the same 40 students for three-plus years!
Still...I think NCLB is nothing short of a crime against over-achievers.
I think referring to children who are challenged academically, for whatever reason, as dummies reflects poorly on you. It's in bad taste. So, not only do you not understand what critical thinking is, you also did not garner the socialization benefits you were seeking when you returned to high school.
The problem with our education system is we tolerate the unwilling learner. We should be showing them the door. Education is a means to a better future. If you don't want it fine, but we should not allow you to take it away from someone else. Too many view education as something imposed upon them...they dream up conspiracy theories about how education is indoctrination into group think which couldn't be farther from the truth. The more educated you are, the better you are able to think on your own. The less educated you are, the more likely you will be to be a sheeple following anyone charismatic enough to get your vote.
But learning is not easy and in this day and age there's a lot to learn. It takes effort on the part of the learner to become an educated person. Most people are too lazy.
Or the kids correctly realize you're wasting their time.
I may have already said this earlier in the thread, but back in the 90s the governor of Hawaii looked at the college-prep curriculum of the Hawaii Public School system, looked at the industries and available jobs in Hawaii, and bluntly announced, "We're wasting our kids' time. We aren't teaching what the bulk of them need to find employment in this state."
The fact is that 70% of Americans ever get bachelor degrees. And the further fact is that this society doesn't really need more than about 30% of people to have bachelor's degrees.
What the society does need is for that 70% to get solid preparation for technical training that does not require a bachelor's degree. But all most schools, educators, and the government are actively "marketing" is a college prep curriculum...even though only 30% of kids are actually in that market.
Kids who aren't looking at professional fields know a college prep curriculum is a waste of time, but they have no other options. So they tune out.
Worse, because elementary curriculums are tracked to mesh with the college-prep high school curriculums, they don't spend as much time as they should with that 70% who need to get the basics firmly grasped before high school.
NCLB exacerbated the situation--it actually penalized schools that had successfully tech-prep programs.
Florida has leaped to the cutting edge of stupidity with requiring even elementary school students to declare college majors.
Or the kids correctly realize you're wasting their time.
I may have already said this earlier in the thread, but back in the 90s the governor of Hawaii looked at the college-prep curriculum of the Hawaii Public School system, looked at the industries and available jobs in Hawaii, and bluntly announced, "We're wasting our kids' time. We aren't teaching what the bulk of them need to find employment in this state."
The fact is that 70% of Americans ever get bachelor degrees. And the further fact is that this society doesn't really need more than about 30% of people to have bachelor's degrees.
What the society does need is for that 70% to get solid preparation for technical training that does not require a bachelor's degree. But all most schools, educators, and the government are actively "marketing" is a college prep curriculum...even though only 30% of kids are actually in that market.
Kids who aren't looking at professional fields know a college prep curriculum is a waste of time, but they have no other options. So they tune out.
Worse, because elementary curriculums are tracked to mesh with the college-prep high school curriculums, they don't spend as much time as they should with that 70% who need to get the basics firmly grasped before high school.
NCLB exacerbated the situation--it actually penalized schools that had successfully tech-prep programs.
Florida has leaped to the cutting edge of stupidity with requiring even elementary school students to declare college majors.
If the aim of education is to get a job, you're right. If the aim of education is to create people who can think, you're not. The ability to think is valuable in just about any industry. However, I will concede that there is a percentage of students that we are wasting our time with in trying to get them to think but I still think it's a good goal.
If education is just for jobs, close the schools and open jobs training programs and be done with it. I happen to think education is about more than just a job but I do agree that everyone should not be on a college prep plan. Not everyone is college material but that does not mean that the only things we should teach are the things that are needed for a particular job.
Case in point. I attended engineering school at a Jesuit university. They made me take religion classes. One of them was religion in an age of science. It was one of my top classes WRT learning to think IMO yet if I had insisted on an education that only taught me what I needed for my job, I never would have taken this class which lead to some very deep discussions about technology, religion, society and what is good for mankind. This class used to spill over into the student commons or onto the lawn. We debated, we discussed, we came up with new ideas and we grew. It was only a 3 credit class but class met about 9 hours a week if you included the continued discussions outside of class.
If education is just about jobs, then by all means teach only what you need to know for a particular job. If it's about enriching life and creating thinkers, you need to teach a lot more.
I do believe we should have multiple tracks in school and college prep should be one of them but the others should not be limited to just what is needed to get a job. There is a lot more to life than just a job. I think we should teach kids about finances and politics. I think we should make them think but I don't think they all need to think about chemistry or calculus. But they should understand basics like why you don't pour motor oil down a drain or why you shouldn't flush excess medications. Perhaps we need an every day life chemistry class that teaches these things.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 01-02-2014 at 03:14 PM..
I used to lean more toward "it's about more than jobs", but when a student comes out $40k in debt...show them a J-O-B.
Students certainly can't tell the colleges that it's about more than tuition.
The ultimate goal for most people going to college is to make more money.
If one wants to have deep discussions we have the internet!
Whatcha think?
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