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Well is it fair if 5 people in that room of 20 decide to pounce on you, and the majority did nothing to stop it? Is that also right? So basically the moral of your story is that if they have guns, then they can control the majority....
Well that is true, you might as well get rid of the EC if going with a proportional system, which I would also be fine with since the EC is outdated and doesn't properly reflect the country and its people.
Everyone should have a one to one vote, no one's vote should count more than someone else's vote.
Again, I will state this as clear as I possibly can, I did not vote for Hillary, and this isn't about who's side wins or loses, I have always felt this way about the EC even when Obama won two times, though he also won the popular votes as well both times, so it was less of an issue since the majority voted for him, but that wouldn't change that it made no sense to have the EC.
That only works if you assume all of those in the 30 states voted for Trump. The winner takes all system doesn't properly reflect the voters in states because not everyone in Oregon voted for Hillary, yet she won all the electoral votes in Oregon.
Why not ? Or is the cream still sour in your pumpkin spice latte ?
The system does not need change. A proportional system as you state would be exactly the same as a popular vote. Look the small states will not give up their power. It's that simple. Any attempt to change the system to a popular vote or proportional system will be oppose by the majority of states. I highly doubted you would even get half the required votes to change the EC system, which makes anything you write rather pointless. You don't have the votes. Thus, there is no point to continue having this discussion.
Oh I am sure we will never see a change to the EC in my lifetime, I am not arguing that, I am simply stating my opinion that it should be at least a proportional system to better reflect the voters. If it stays the current system and the one who loses the popular vote wins any more times in my lifetime, we are probably going to see more and more voters become disenfranchised and feel as if they are not being represented in this country. Which last two times we had that happen it resulted in the American Revolutionary War and the Civil War.
Quote:
Originally Posted by leftee
Why not ? Or is the cream still sour in your pumpkin spice latte ?
I have no idea, anything pumpkin flavored gets thrown in the trash.
Why do we have electors that do not believe in the electoral process? They need to be replaced.
The US Constitution does not bind electors.
Some states bind electors, requiring them to vote for the general election winner in their state, but these state laws have not been tested in court, and many US constitution scholars believe that these laws are unconstitutional.
So I think that these "faithless" electors DO understand the electoral college very well - better than you do, at any rate.
The US constitution does not give individuals the right to vote for president. Electors are chosen by individual states, and as far as the USC is concerned, electors could be chosen by drawing straws if the individual state wishes. A popular vote is NOT required by the USC.
I'm not expressing an opinion about what electors should or should not do - just pointing out to you the realities of the electoral college and why a lot of people think it should be abolished.
This will push us into civil war. An election being overturn by presidential electors will undermine the electoral system. The real question would then be why have an election if the presidential electors can renegade on state chosen electoral candidate? Might as well skip the expense of running an election and primaries and have the presidential electors select who will be president. Do you think different member of military will just stand by and let it happen? Last I check the arm forces are required to take an oath to protect the constitution and it's values, which if I'm not mistaken such a renegade decision by the presidential electors would be such an attack on the constitution.
Personally, I think all states need to make so that presidential electors can't switch their votes for future elections. This will eliminate the possibility of an elected candidate not being selected by the presidential electors and a possible civil war, sever civil unrest, or some unfavorable event to USA.
It will push us into civil war, and if it does, I'm loading up my gun.....if I have one, liberals.
You don't know.
Well is it fair if 5 people in that room of 20 decide to pounce on you, and the majority did nothing to stop it? Is that also right? So basically the moral of your story is that if they have guns, then they can control the majority....
Well that is true, you might as well get rid of the EC if going with a proportional system, which I would also be fine with since the EC is outdated and doesn't properly reflect the country and its people.
Everyone should have a one to one vote, no one's vote should count more than someone else's vote.
Again, I will state this as clear as I possibly can, I did not vote for Hillary, and this isn't about who's side wins or loses, I have always felt this way about the EC even when Obama won two times, though he also won the popular votes as well both times, so it was less of an issue since the majority voted for him, but that wouldn't change that it made no sense to have the EC.
That only works if you assume all of those in the 30 states voted for Trump. The winner takes all system doesn't properly reflect the voters in states because not everyone in Oregon voted for Hillary, yet she won all the electoral votes in Oregon.
No. It is not outdated. The Constitution is also not outdated, another liberal cry that we hear far too often when the liberals don't get their way.
If you want to win an election, put in someone who isn't corrupt...so corrupt that even people who voted TWICE for Obama said, "NOPE!" and voted for Trump, instead. Or people who voted twice for Obama, didn't like Trump, but also did not like Hillary, voted third party.
And then, I don't know, maybe start teaching actual history and civics in school again - high school - teach about our government - in high school - teach those kids why they should take part in the election process. Most of them at that age are liberals. Many Conservatives today were liberal when they were younger...not all, but a fair amount. At that age, you still have this idea of an ideal world, and dang it, the only way you're going to get that is if you get up off of your butt and go vote.
65+64 = 129 million people voted. That's it. Stop with telling people, or even implying, that voting is a waste of time. Get people educated and involved in politics. So often you hear people say that they have no interest in politics, they don't care, they think that it doesn't matter, DC will do what DC wants to do. This election showed that no, DC doesn't always get to do what DC wants to do. That should be a very valuable lesson to all of those who claim that their votes don't count for anything. Yes, they do. If everyone who was eligible to vote actually voted, we could possibly see amazingly different outcomes.
Finally, the liberals were perfectly fine with the EC when they thought Hillary had it. In fact, there were threads right here on City Data FULL of gloating from the left about the 300+ massacre she was going to win.
All of a sudden, the liberals want no part of the EC? Give me a break. It's been working, our Forefathers were NOT stupid, and to hear liberals crying about the EC, as if they are smarter than our Forefathers, is absurd.
Hillary lost. She can have people put death threats on EC voters, but she is still not going to win.
You vote for an elector, you don't vote for the President. You have electors on the Dem side, you have electors on the Republican side. When you vote, you're voting for which side you want representing your state's vote. Not once in your life have you ever voted for the president.
It has never been a problem all this time until November 8th. Suddenly it's "outdated", "unfair", "favoring certain states", etc.
What IS outdated is the incessant whining about a system that works really, really well.
If liberals had complained about the EC for years before this election, I'd put more stock in to what they say. The fact is, they haven't. They are only complaining now because they all have massive egg all over their faces.
No. It is not outdated. The Constitution is also not outdated, another liberal cry that we hear far too often when the liberals don't get their way.
If you want to win an election, put in someone who isn't corrupt...so corrupt that even people who voted TWICE for Obama said, "NOPE!" and voted for Trump, instead. Or people who voted twice for Obama, didn't like Trump, but also did not like Hillary, voted third party.
And then, I don't know, maybe start teaching actual history and civics in school again - high school - teach about our government - in high school - teach those kids why they should take part in the election process. Most of them at that age are liberals. Many Conservatives today were liberal when they were younger...not all, but a fair amount. At that age, you still have this idea of an ideal world, and dang it, the only way you're going to get that is if you get up off of your butt and go vote.
65+64 = 129 million people voted. That's it. Stop with telling people, or even implying, that voting is a waste of time. Get people educated and involved in politics. So often you hear people say that they have no interest in politics, they don't care, they think that it doesn't matter, DC will do what DC wants to do. This election showed that no, DC doesn't always get to do what DC wants to do. That should be a very valuable lesson to all of those who claim that their votes don't count for anything. Yes, they do. If everyone who was eligible to vote actually voted, we could possibly see amazingly different outcomes.
Finally, the liberals were perfectly fine with the EC when they thought Hillary had it. In fact, there were threads right here on City Data FULL of gloating from the left about the 300+ massacre she was going to win.
All of a sudden, the liberals want no part of the EC? Give me a break. It's been working, our Forefathers were NOT stupid, and to hear liberals crying about the EC, as if they are smarter than our Forefathers, is absurd.
Hillary lost. She can have people put death threats on EC voters, but she is still not going to win.
You vote for an elector, you don't vote for the President. You have electors on the Dem side, you have electors on the Republican side. When you vote, you're voting for which side you want representing your state's vote. Not once in your life have you ever voted for the president.
It has never been a problem all this time until November 8th. Suddenly it's "outdated", "unfair", "favoring certain states", etc.
What IS outdated is the incessant whining about a system that works really, really well.
If liberals had complained about the EC for years before this election, I'd put more stock in to what they say. The fact is, they haven't. They are only complaining now because they all have massive egg all over their faces.
No. It is not outdated. The Constitution is also not outdated, another liberal cry that we hear far too often when the liberals don't get their way.
If you want to win an election, put in someone who isn't corrupt...so corrupt that even people who voted TWICE for Obama said, "NOPE!" and voted for Trump, instead. Or people who voted twice for Obama, didn't like Trump, but also did not like Hillary, voted third party.
And then, I don't know, maybe start teaching actual history and civics in school again - high school - teach about our government - in high school - teach those kids why they should take part in the election process. Most of them at that age are liberals. Many Conservatives today were liberal when they were younger...not all, but a fair amount. At that age, you still have this idea of an ideal world, and dang it, the only way you're going to get that is if you get up off of your butt and go vote.
65+64 = 129 million people voted. That's it. Stop with telling people, or even implying, that voting is a waste of time. Get people educated and involved in politics. So often you hear people say that they have no interest in politics, they don't care, they think that it doesn't matter, DC will do what DC wants to do. This election showed that no, DC doesn't always get to do what DC wants to do. That should be a very valuable lesson to all of those who claim that their votes don't count for anything. Yes, they do. If everyone who was eligible to vote actually voted, we could possibly see amazingly different outcomes.
Finally, the liberals were perfectly fine with the EC when they thought Hillary had it. In fact, there were threads right here on City Data FULL of gloating from the left about the 300+ massacre she was going to win.
All of a sudden, the liberals want no part of the EC? Give me a break. It's been working, our Forefathers were NOT stupid, and to hear liberals crying about the EC, as if they are smarter than our Forefathers, is absurd.
Hillary lost. She can have people put death threats on EC voters, but she is still not going to win.
You vote for an elector, you don't vote for the President. You have electors on the Dem side, you have electors on the Republican side. When you vote, you're voting for which side you want representing your state's vote. Not once in your life have you ever voted for the president.
It has never been a problem all this time until November 8th. Suddenly it's "outdated", "unfair", "favoring certain states", etc.
What IS outdated is the incessant whining about a system that works really, really well.
If liberals had complained about the EC for years before this election, I'd put more stock in to what they say. The fact is, they haven't. They are only complaining now because they all have massive egg all over their faces.
Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
Why would you think I thought the Constitution is outdated? Do you still think blacks should only count as a part of a person and women should not be entitled to any rights? Those were outdated things too that we have since updated.
So yes, I think the EC is outdated and either needs to be updated or done away with.
I don't know about you, but I have always thought the Electoral College has been outdated due to doing a poor job representing the people. I felt this way even back when Obama won in 2008 and 2012, and I voted for him.
Yes, I am aware how elections work, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, no one is arguing that. I do still think that the Electoral College is a poor way to decide who wins and who loses. I don't need you to explain to me how the Electoral College works, I am well aware how it works, the how it works isn't what I have an issue with.
I am sorry that you don't like that someone has a different opinion than you, I personally think the EC is a bad idea that does nothing but disenfranchise the voter and gives lopsided representation to some voters while reducing the voting power of others.
So you mention how many people voted, 65+64, yet you ignore who got the 65. That is odd of you, since that was the point I was making. The 65 million voters lots to the candidate that received less votes.
Why would you think I thought the Constitution is outdated? Do you still think blacks should only count as a part of a person and women should not be entitled to any rights? Those were outdated things too that we have since updated.
So yes, I think the EC is outdated and either needs to be updated or done away with.
I don't know about you, but I have always thought the Electoral College has been outdated due to doing a poor job representing the people. I felt this way even back when Obama won in 2008 and 2012, and I voted for him.
Yes, I am aware how elections work, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, no one is arguing that. I do still think that the Electoral College is a poor way to decide who wins and who loses. I don't need you to explain to me how the Electoral College works, I am well aware how it works, the how it works isn't what I have an issue with.
I am sorry that you don't like that someone has a different opinion than you, I personally think the EC is a bad idea that does nothing but disenfranchise the voter and gives lopsided representation to some voters while reducing the voting power of others.
The problem isn`t the disagreement but the constant complaining after the fact.
Trump won the election based on the current rules.
End of story.
People want to change the EC? Fine. Go ahead and attempt to make such changes.
However, don`t continuously moan and groan over the 2016 election results.
[i][indent][color="Navy"]A number of Democratic Electoral College electors are planning to use their votes to undermine the election process in opposition to President-elect Donald Trump, Politico is reporting.
The electors acknowledge that it is unlikely that they will be able to block Trump from gaining office, Politico reported, but they are optimistic that their effort will raise enough questions about the Electoral College to reform or abolish it.
If true, it wouldn't surprise me as that is what Democrats do. They will purposely screw something up themselves, trying to prove there is something wrong.
For example, the plants at Tea Party rallies where the liberals infiltrate the rallies holding up racist signs, "to prove Tea Party people are racists".
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