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No Beijing was 'capital' earlier than that, after Chang'an (now Xian) the first capital of the united China. Nanjing was only briefly the 'southern capital' under the Song.
OK, well Chang'an was right on the edge of the Tibetan empire at its greatest extent, so maybe that's when it occurred. Sorry, I don't recall the details.
If they're alive very few practice it, and linguistically they're extinct. Most Manchu are now sinicised, they have Chinese names, speak Chinese, many have mixed with Han from the south (who extended into old Manchuria, NE China now, much of Heilongjiang province). Manchu may have regarded Han as inferior but they respected their culture and took it on, discarding their language and many of their customs (though keeping some). They could not prevent Chinese streaming into Manchuria.
I was talking about the Manchus in Russia. They're still speaking their language, they're not at all linguistically extinct. Chinese Manchuria only represents roughly half of Manchuria. The northern half is in Russia.
OK, well Chang'an was right on the edge of the Tibetan empire at its greatest extent, so maybe that's when it occurred. Sorry, I don't recall the details.
Xian is well within the Chinese heartland in Shaanxi, I don't know much about the history of China or Tibet really (aside from the broadest details), but I've not heard of any conquest of China by any Tibetan kingdom. China and Tibet have an interesting relationship, there's a belief the two groups of people split off about 5000 years ago.
I was talking about the Manchus in Russia. They're still speaking their language, they're not at all linguistically extinct. Chinese Manchuria only represents roughly half of Manchuria. The northern half is in Russia.
What Manchu in Russia? Maybe they go under a different name, or a related people. According to this almost all the Manchu live in the PRC.
They go by different names--3 of the Amur tribes: Nanai, Ulchi (called "Nani" in their own language) and the Udege (also found in the mts. outside of Vladivostok).
The Tibetan Empire at its zenith extended to just outside Xi'an, included part of Xinjiang (Uighur territory) and extended into northern Afghanistan and Kashmir, and into Burma, and a good chunk of Yunnan. It also included the Indian province of Arunachal Pradesh (which China now claims). There are Tibetan-descended peoples living in all those areas today.
At least you acknowledge it was little different to other colonial expansions, but since it was by land it's not as condemned.
I've already explained to you why it was different from Western colonization (what's "little" or not here - it's your own definition.)
In case of Anglo-Saxon colonization of America, Anglo-Saxon culture was simply way to different in its core to accept the local population; it would have to kill the local culture completely, since it clearly couldn't absorb it. However Russian culture ( not the culture of the upper class, but the culture of lower class, the peasantry,) had similarities with the culture of the natives. That's why both could coexist side by side, and that's why the natives were not wiped out - there was not too much contradictions between the two.
Were the natives exploited and suppressed? Of course they were, but so were the Russian peasants as well, who practically remained in the position of slaves up to 1862.
Colonization "by land" makes all the difference in this respect, because it had a different concept - the continuous inclusion of the new land and gradual Russification of the local population, instead of downright destruction of it, or using it as labor set strictly to serve the different master race.
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I'm not surprised, the Soviets probably told them how great they had it under them.
Those lands have been included in Russia long before Soviets came to power; Soviets only continued the policies of the Tzarist Empire in this respect.
I think I've tried to explain to you all this earlier, but to no avail I guess.
You're talking about two different historical periods. When the Russians were exploring and taking over Siberia and the Far East, they didn't end anyone to universities. It was only later they did this. And for a long time, it was only the greater Native peoples, the ones with their own autonomous regions, who were sent to university. The Small-In-Number Native peoples (малочисленные народы севера) didn't really begin to go to university until the 20th Century. AND the Small-In-Number Native peoples were forced to go to boarding schools (интернаты), a long way from their families, and weren't allowed to speak their language, similar to what happened in the US, Canada, and Australia.
In any case, Native Americans do go to university and do have rights, though there are still problems.
Tell me about the capture of Siberia? there was no conquest of Siberia.About the period of the so-called capture sibireeto period Yarmak, but funny that long before that there was a lot of Russian and Slavic.
^ Lol no point debating you GreyKarast, you've made up your mind.
And I'm not American, fyi.
I know that you are not American, and it does not matter. you have a very poor knowledge of history unfortunately.
The Postman,why are you so interested in the history expansionist Russia? Maybe you'd better go to the historic forum? There cann't talk about your country. She had been a colony of England and all of the 20th century it gained independence and thus formally the British Queen is still the head.
We have a great history and lacked space to fit on a few leaves to study it. You were in Russia at least once? (but not in Moscow or St. Petersburg, I'm talking about the Far East, Siberia) in those regions that interest you ?
Last edited by GreyKarast; 01-29-2014 at 12:43 AM..
In every story there is always a positive and negative points. And we do not discuss them. we live in today. We will never be able to know and understand all the causes of what is happening. Easten history. Since Russia's history was rewritten in the reign of the Romanovs. She has a lot of mistakes and accuracies in the western Cliveti and reasons are clear to all.
In Siberia, Slavs lived long before 1500.
Funny how history writes as Ermak conquered Siberia. Funny, that the size of Siberia and the ruler was known in Europe and the Russian tsar. how can this be? Because we know that first opened Siberia Yermak. It was a Slavic Aryan territory which included many local people as it is today, but she did not have a central authority. Romanovs wanted to obey all the Moscow kingdom. So that was sent to Siberia Yermak to suppress uprising. No more.
Yes, and the Mongol invasion never happened. even in the modern history of Russian princes called hanami when they fought in peacetime princes.
Countries - Mongolia, the Golden Horde, Juchids (or how will anyone else) ever before CENTURY 19 on any map IN NO UNIFIED CHRONICLES existed!! If you are in doubt about the falsification of history, cann't check it yourself.
And now, directly on modern Mongolia and Mongolia. Current Khalkhas (Mongolians) until 1924 and did not even expect that they have with the Mongols of the 13th century, they do not call themselves so they have their own self - Khalkha. And then they suddenly became identified himself with the Mongols of the 13th century, most of those conquerors who in the world and called Tatars in Russia were called Tartars. Due to the Bolsheviks in 1921 appeared the present Mongolia and it was also attributed to the entire history of Genghis Khan. Have you ever wondered when using-tips bolshiviki created Mongolia, between Mongolia and Kazakhstan for some reason did not make the common border? (Left a small piece Rosiii-sharing on the map is very well marked) And why Mongolia is not included in the USSR? although this could be done without any problems, helped Khalkha Mongols built their city and even the alphabet presented, and to his reason not to join.
But all we can discuss in the historic forum if you want.
I would like Sorry before iNviNciBL3. For what little garbage on your topic. I'm sorry!
Last edited by GreyKarast; 01-29-2014 at 01:55 AM..
They go by different names--3 of the Amur tribes: Nanai, Ulchi (called "Nani" in their own language) and the Udege (also found in the mts. outside of Vladivostok).
The Tibetan Empire at its zenith extended to just outside Xi'an, included part of Xinjiang (Uighur territory) and extended into northern Afghanistan and Kashmir, and into Burma, and a good chunk of Yunnan. It also included the Indian province of Arunachal Pradesh (which China now claims). There are Tibetan-descended peoples living in all those areas today.
Interesting, Tibet seems such a mysterious culture. I think a lot of Westerners idealise it when it had many bad aspects, but I still find it an interesting culture and place. Perhaps this is why you still find Tibetan people in parts of Sichuan, Yunnan and Qinghai today.
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