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I wouldn't go so far as to say that Sakhalin has more links with the Japanese than the Russians. What it does have very strong links with historically is the Manchu-speaking populations on the Amur and the Nivkhi. (There are a couple of Manchu tribes on Sakhalin.) The Amur tribes had long-distance sailing vessels that they used to trade with people on Sakhalin and with the Ainu. There's some debate among anthropologists and archaeologists as to whether the Ainu actually populated the Amur first, before passing onto Sakhalin and then migrating south to Hokkaido, or whether they took a more southern route to Japan from China, and then later moved north in small numbers, following fish migrations, and also being taken to the Amur on those trading vessels.
The story of the colonial experience in north Asia, especially the armed conflicts with the Native peoples, has never been told in Russian history books, and has been suppressed, even after the fall of the Soviet regime. The Native people haven't forgotten, however. There is one book on the topic, published in the West. If you're interested, I can see if I can find it.
btw, China exerts a similarly tight control over how its history is told. Notice that all the regimes that represent foreign domination of China always get rendered as Chinese dynasties: the Yuan (when China was part of the Mongol empire), the Jin (when the Jurchens took over), the Qing dynasty (when the Manchus ran China, and the Manchus were the same Jurchens again, with a new name), and others. If you look at China's history through this ethnic lens, it becomes clear that China was dominated by foreigners a majority of the time. Even Tibet conquered the Chinese capital for a brief period.
At least you acknowledge it was little different to other colonial expansions, but since it was by land it's not as condemned. Likewise, people seem to condemn Britain etc when the Mongols etc were little different. Why is Alexander the Great seen as a hero when he did the same? Colonialism and conquest is a part of history, so we can't rewind the clock. I've not proposing Russia or any other country give back the land, just don't like how it gets a free pass and people acting like Siberia is part of the European Russian homeland when it was inhabited by Asian people.
I'm not surprised, the Soviets probably told them how great they had it under them.
Rendered by who? A lot of Chinese nationalists are quick to point out they were not ruled by Chinese, even if they were really totally sinicised and no different to the 'Chinese run' dynasties. Those who conquered China who ultimately conquered by China, culturally. Now Mongolia has only 2 million people and most Mongols live under the PRC, and the Manchu language and culture is almost dead. That's sort of the story of China, I think, many ethnicities who were gradually subsumed into the dominant culture, notwithstanding the diversity.
Tibet conquered Beijing? Never heard of it, tell me more.
At least you acknowledge it was little different to other colonial expansions, but since it was by land it's not as condemned. Likewise, people seem to condemn Britain etc when the Mongols etc were little different. Why is Alexander the Great seen as a hero when he did the same? Colonialism and conquest is a part of history, so we can't rewind the clock. I've not proposing Russia or any other country give back the land, just don't like how it gets a free pass and people acting like Siberia is part of the European Russian homeland when it was inhabited by Asian people.
I'm not surprised, the Soviets probably told them how great they had it under them.
Rendered by who? A lot of Chinese nationalists are quick to point out they were not ruled by Chinese, even if they were really totally sinicised and no different to the 'Chinese run' dynasties. Those who conquered China who ultimately conquered by China, culturally. Now Mongolia has only 2 million people and most Mongols live under the PRC, and the Manchu language and culture is almost dead. That's sort of the story of China, I think, many ethnicities who were gradually subsumed into the dominant culture, notwithstanding the diversity.
Tibet conquered Beijing? Never heard of it, tell me more.
I don't think the capital was Beijing at that time, I think it was Nanjing, the southern capital. It was the Mongols who established Beijing as the capital of China, I think. Anyway, the Tibetans didn't hold the Chinese capital for long, but they did manage to conquer it briefly.
Most Mongols don't live in China. Aside from Mongolia, there are the Buryats in southern Siberia and the Kalmyks in western Russia.
Manchurian languages and culture are still alive on the Amur, and certain traditions have undergone a revival.
The "official" history of China claims all those periods of foreign domination as "Chinese". It's universally accepted that way among China scholars internationally. I wouldn't say the Manchus were sinicized, exactly, depending on what you mean by that. They regarded the Han as inferior people.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 01-28-2014 at 01:19 AM..
I don't know the history of Sakhalin, but I do know 400,000 Japanese used to live there and no longer do. Why would Japan renounce all claims to Sakhalin? I haven't heard such a thing.
Alaska was taken over by Russia and was sold to America. You never heard of 'Seaward's folly'? I guess the Russians are regretting that now. You probably think Russia has always be good and glorious to the natives, and that it all belongs to European Russians.
400,000 where did you get this ифра? Study history, later'll criticize. I gave you the exact dates of these contracts ,so if you are interested to read them.
with regard to Alaska this was a Scam and the Russian Treasury did not receive a single dollar.
Where are your live Indians today? In their native lands? They live in reservations and most of the lands were barren. Where they live today, Koryaks,Buryats ,evens and so on ? Yes their native lands they did not throw away from this earth. The Russians came and assimilated with locals,always has been.
With regard to the colonization ,we will not destroy millions of Indians like you did or Spaniards and English. You always shared the people in the black and white and they were not people . In the US, the Constitution States the existence of second-class citizens . with regard to the military that they believe that.
What you do not like that Russia is the largest country in the world? We opened and guarded their land . So who prevented you to do the same?Afraid to fight and cold.You subzero temperature and a panic .With regard to the Mongols and Mongolia. You show where she was in the 18th century? You will be surprised,but it was not at the place where she is today.
Last edited by GreyKarast; 01-28-2014 at 07:09 AM..
At least you acknowledge it was little different to other colonial expansions, but since it was by land it's not as condemned. Likewise, people seem to condemn Britain etc when the Mongols etc were little different. Why is Alexander the Great seen as a hero when he did the same? Colonialism and conquest is a part of history, so we can't rewind the clock. I've not proposing Russia or any other country give back the land, just don't like how it gets a free pass and people acting like Siberia is part of the European Russian homeland when it was inhabited by Asian people.
I'm not surprised, the Soviets probably told them how great they had it under them.
Rendered by who? A lot of Chinese nationalists are quick to point out they were not ruled by Chinese, even if they were really totally sinicised and no different to the 'Chinese run' dynasties. Those who conquered China who ultimately conquered by China, culturally. Now Mongolia has only 2 million people and most Mongols live under the PRC, and the Manchu language and culture is almost dead. That's sort of the story of China, I think, many ethnicities who were gradually subsumed into the dominant culture, notwithstanding the diversity.
Tibet conquered Beijing? Never heard of it, tell me more.
Siberia has always been Russian Motherland and the main city was Asgard iryisky .today is the city of OMSK
We're different people and we have a different mentality .
The population of Siberia is not Asian and all Russia, the main mass of the Russians.
Can we return to the theme?It not a historic meeting.
with regard to Alaska this was a Scam and the Russian Treasury did not receive a single dollar.
Where are your live Indians today? In their native lands? They live in reservations and most of the lands were barren. Where they live today, Koryaks,Buryats ,evens and so on ? Yes their native lands they did not throw away from this earth. The Russians came and assimilated with locals,always has been.
Grey, could you provide more information or a link to an article to support your statement that Russia did not get paid for Alaska when the US bought it?
The situation with Native Americans and their land is not the same everywhere. Some tribes (mainly SOME (not all) eastern tribes) were removed from their lands and resettled in Oklahoma. Others are still on at least a portion of their ancestral lands (the Mohawks and Seneca of NY, for example, and there are many more--in Connecticut, Florida, New Jersey, Maine, etc.) And some tribes are buying more land to expand their territory. Occasionally Indian land claim cases come before the federal court and land is awarded (returned) to the tribes (a famous case of this was in the state of Maine, and President Carter helped resolve the case).
All the Western tribes and many mid-Western tribes are still on their ancestral lands. The size of that land has shrunk, but they are still in their traditional natural environment, and continue to hunt and fish (and their hunting and fishing rights have been upheld in court), as well as to hold jobs and pursue education and train for professions.
btw, the Buryats did have quite a bit of land taken away from them. The west side of Lake Baikal used to belong to Buryatia, and there are a few autonomous okrugs west of Baikal and also east of Buryatia that are Buryat. The Mongol land in that area was broken up for obvious reasons, but also, Russians wanted access to Baikal, so they took the land on the west side of the lake away from Buryatia.
Alaska was part of the Russian colonial expansion eastward. Russians burned down Aleut villages and enslaved many of the survivors. They did the same with the Tlingit. This is a little-known part of Alaskan and Russian history. Although some Aleuts participate in the Russian Orthodox Church today and some are priests in the Church, they haven't forgotten the brutal treatment they received from the Russians.
Radio Day, 12 (not bad remake of Twelve Angry Men), 72 Meters, Metro (looks like average Hollywood movie), Piter FM, The Dyatlov pass incident, The Edge, Novaya Zemlya, Kak ya provel etim letom. Tell me, what a genre of movies do you prefer?
I prefer scary movies, this is one of the reasons why I watch russian films rarely.
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I've been there like...once.
I had to find some people and the first mistake I made ( apparently) was to ask some girls on the street for that address in English ( I was on autopilot you see...)They gave me a look and that's when I've heard "No speak English." Then I've noticed that all street names were in Russian. Then after founding the people I had to find I went to the Brighton Beach and the chorus of babushkas sitting on the near-by bench told me that I had to put panama on my child's head and showed it with gestures ( just in case I couldn't understand them.) I'm telling you - I couldn't wait to get heck out of there. It was like this;
I knew that there is a lot of russians in the Brighton Beach, but I didn't know that this is like a typical russian city so much! It's still hard to beleive that there is NYC in your video.
How are relations between russians in the US except the Brighton Beach? More friendly or not? I've heard the expression, "the first who will trick you in New York will be russian".
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If I had my way, I'd stay in Seattle; in Florida I've heard the huge bugs are falling on your head and then they have alligators down there. Plus I've always thought that Caucasus had high level of humidity comparably to Moscow, but it turned to be out nothing comparably to the US. In the US you simply can't survive without the air-conditioner; in Caucasus it's not a problem.
Probably yes, although I never been in FL, but sometimes we get something like that:
You know, I thought that your neck of woods/Southern Russia looked more like Ukraine; but where you live, it already looks like Caucasus, really. Practically same as Gagra where I've spent a lot of time, just bigger and better infrastructure of course comparably to Caucasus.
I see the peaks of Caucasus every day, but of course, there is no evergreen forests near Ukraine, only hot dry and endless steppes like the place where I lived before. I like Gagra, this is a wonderful town and located only in 30 km from Adler.
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I've checked more of Serebro videos - one of them is downright porn, the rest are getting there.
They wouldn't be acceptable by Western standards - I can tell you that much)))
( Their music ( and scandalous style) reminds me of TATU though, so I can understand why they are popular.)
Still yes, I like more the clips of Serebro than songs... But TATU has "All about us", this is a nice song.
What do you think about Sveta, I liked her songs when studied in university:
Grey, could you provide more information or a link to an article to support your statement that Russia did not get paid for Alaska when the US bought it?
Alaska was part of the Russian colonial expansion eastward. Russians burned down Aleut villages and enslaved many of the survivors. They did the same with the Tlingit. This is a little-known part of Alaskan and Russian history. Although some Aleuts participate in the Russian Orthodox Church today and some are priests in the Church, they haven't forgotten the brutal treatment they received from the Russians.
I do not know the details, do not seem to have been a good reason. Tribes were not always friendly. But, it was not so often. how about that karioly and other Indians who were part of Russia in Alaska had a big right. they studied in the best universities of St. Petersburg, held leadership positions and Russian engage in sexual intercourse only after they marry. With the arrival of the Americans you have taken from them all right, you spaili them with alcohol and did not consider them as human beings. How about this?
Read the book of Ivan Mironov. Using new archival sources the author finds the exact answer to the question: aspirations Russian rulers were selfish transaction or move them other conspiratorial motives. He cites documents that prove that the money paid for the America Alaska were almost entirely in the pockets of individuals.It should be noted another discovery made by researchers in the analysis of the "Agreement on the Assignment of Russian North American colonies " in terms of the interests of the contracting parties : " We must assume that conflicting emotions tore contributors to the ill-fated agreement. Nothing else can explain the absence of the traditional Russian diplomatic treatises formula "in perpetuity ." The contract refers to the assignment , but does not say for how long . " You can have different attitudes to this flaws made in the contract inadvertently or intentionally , but this legal case can be a starting point for a possible return of the cast Russia North American territories. But we know that will not happen.It is the analysis of archival documents , as well as the vast literature on the subject, lets trust Ivan Mironov conclusion that ( the sale of Alaska in 1867 from start to finish was a betrayal of the interests of Russia: the political situation of that time had no reason for putting Russian territories all the official reasons for the sale were not only unfounded , but also contradict each other , the price of Alaska was symbolic ) .If Alaska remained part of Russia , the United States would be unable to develop because , as the U.S. saw Russia High competitor on the new continent.
Formation of Russian geopolitical space - this centuries-long historical process of accession to the Russian state of new territories , whether the conquest of new lands , or voluntary integration of the peoples of Russia , or the peaceful exploration of space unoccupied by Russian explorers . Rejection of the Russian Empire its territories occurred , usually only as a result of military defeats , and in the history of Russia there was no example of voluntary refusal of the ruling elite of the state-owned land holdings , with one exception - the so-called "concessions" Alaska - Russian sales of North American colonies to the United States of America in the 1867 's and 90's and 2000s . Putin, Medvedev , Gorbachev , Shevardnadze , Yeltsin are enemies of the State , these people have violated the oath which was given to the people of Russia
Last edited by GreyKarast; 01-28-2014 at 07:00 PM..
I do not know the details, do not seem to have been a good reason. Tribes were not always friendly. But, it was not so often. how about that karioly and other Indians who were part of Russia in Alaska had a big right. they studied in the best universities of St. Petersburg, held leadership positions and Russian engage in sexual intercourse only after they marry. With the arrival of the Americans you have taken from them all right, you spaili them with alcohol and did not consider them as human beings. How about this?
Well, the Russians did the same thing in Alaska.
You're talking about two different historical periods. When the Russians were exploring and taking over Siberia and the Far East, they didn't end anyone to universities. It was only later they did this. And for a long time, it was only the greater Native peoples, the ones with their own autonomous regions, who were sent to university. The Small-In-Number Native peoples (малочисленные народы севера) didn't really begin to go to university until the 20th Century. AND the Small-In-Number Native peoples were forced to go to boarding schools (интернаты), a long way from their families, and weren't allowed to speak their language, similar to what happened in the US, Canada, and Australia.
In any case, Native Americans do go to university and do have rights, though there are still problems.
I don't think the capital was Beijing at that time, I think it was Nanjing, the southern capital. It was the Mongols who established Beijing as the capital of China, I think. Anyway, the Tibetans didn't hold the Chinese capital for long, but they did manage to conquer it briefly.
Most Mongols don't live in China. Aside from Mongolia, there are the Buryats in southern Siberia and the Kalmyks in western Russia.
Manchurian languages and culture are still alive on the Amur, and certain traditions have undergone a revival.
The "official" history of China claims all those periods of foreign domination as "Chinese". It's universally accepted that way among China scholars internationally. I wouldn't say the Manchus were sinicized, exactly, depending on what you mean by that. They regarded the Han as inferior people.
No Beijing was 'capital' earlier than that, after Chang'an (now Xian) the first capital of the united China. Nanjing was only briefly the 'southern capital' under the Song.
If they're alive very few practice it, and linguistically they're extinct. Most Manchu are now sinicised, they have Chinese names, speak Chinese, many have mixed with Han from the south (who extended into old Manchuria, NE China now, much of Heilongjiang province). Manchu may have regarded Han as inferior but they respected their culture and took it on, discarding their language and many of their customs (though keeping some). They could not prevent Chinese streaming into Manchuria.
Well numbers are disputed, but by ancestry, a lot live in China. I'd say you just wouldn't know because of assimilation and because they are Han culturally now, speaking only Mandarin.
^ Lol no point debating you GreyKarast, you've made up your mind.
And I'm not American, fyi.
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( I was on autopilot you see...
)They gave me a look and that's when I've heard "No speak English." Then I've noticed that all street names were in Russian. Then after founding the people I had to find I went to the Brighton Beach and the chorus of babushkas sitting on the near-by bench told me that I had to put panama on my child's head and showed it with gestures ( just in case I couldn't understand them.) I'm telling you - I couldn't wait to get heck out of there. It was like this;
Plus I've always thought that Caucasus had high level of humidity comparably to Moscow, but it turned to be out nothing comparably to the US. In the US you simply can't survive without the air-conditioner; in Caucasus it's not a problem.
, but of course, there is no evergreen forests near Ukraine, only hot dry and endless steppes like the place where I lived before. I like Gagra, this is a wonderful town and located only in 30 km from Adler.
