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Old 03-13-2022, 03:01 PM
 
Location: SE UK
14,820 posts, read 12,026,546 times
Reputation: 9813

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post
Maybe. But perhaps not.



It will happen. Many of the armed forces of Ukraine are surrendering. But many are very scared as neo-Nazi war criminals intimidate and kill military personnel. For example, they chain guilty soldiers with chains:


https://i.mycdn.me/i?r=AzEPZsRbOZEKg...kZCeTgDn6uOyic



You have to distinguish between nationalists and ordinary Ukrainians.

Personally, yes, I did not think that they would hide in cities full of peaceful people. Russia opens humanitarian corridors for the evacuation of the population, but nationalists block many exits. I also misjudged that Zelensky would prefer the death of civilians and destroyed cities instead of capitulation.



Oh yeah.
Russian's bomb hospital's and school's, they are child killers. When soldiers fight them back they immediately start threatening to 'push the button'! They're pathetic and the world hates them.

You'll have to thank that midget Putin for what's about to befall Russia - the guy is an absolute idiot!

Russian child killers!
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Old 03-13-2022, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,234,324 times
Reputation: 1742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunbiz1 View Post
A rare glimpse near Moscow, perhaps their final report; before being shut down.

If YouTube continues to use censorship, or how the Facebook allows calls for violence against Russians, then yes, YouTube will be blocked. This is not fatal, and if you wish, you can bypass the blocking, but it will become unavailable for business.
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Old 03-13-2022, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,234,324 times
Reputation: 1742
Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
Russian's bomb hospital's and school's, they are child killers. When soldiers fight them back they immediately start threatening to 'push the button'! They're pathetic and the world hates them.

You'll have to thank that midget Putin for what's about to befall Russia - the guy is an absolute idiot!

Russian child killers!

Please stop the tantrum. Russia does not shell hospitals if there are no soldiers. And entire adequate world understands that Ukraine is sick with Nazism, that Nazism is part of the government there. Nazis helped carry out the 2014 coup, Nazis were the main striking force of the war in eastern Ukraine in 2014-2022. But in the near future it won't be their country anymore.
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Old 03-13-2022, 03:20 PM
 
572 posts, read 279,911 times
Reputation: 618
Great Twitter thread on the Russian use of the slur "Nazi".

https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/stat...53699798769666
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Old 03-13-2022, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Newburyport, MA
12,430 posts, read 9,529,208 times
Reputation: 15907
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post
Please stop the tantrum. Russia does not shell hospitals if there are no soldiers. And entire adequate world understands that Ukraine is sick with Nazism, that Nazism is part of the government there. Nazis helped carry out the 2014 coup, Nazis were the main striking force of the war in eastern Ukraine in 2014-2022. But in the near future it won't be their country anymore.
That's certainly not what the witnesses in Ukraine to the Russian army attacks say. And as far as the "entire world", the UN General Assembly voted to condemn the Russian invasion 141 to 5. So the "entire world" is against Russia's attacks and the only "adequate" nations in the world according to your view seem to be the invaders - Russia, plus North Korea, Belarus, Eritrae and Syria. Just five nations, and not a free and democratic nation among them.

Protests against Russian aggression in The Hague:


In Berlin:


In London:


In Istanbul


In the USA
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Old 03-13-2022, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,234,324 times
Reputation: 1742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck_Mulligan View Post
Great Twitter thread on the Russian use of the slur "Nazi".

https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/stat...53699798769666
From there:

Quote:
Putinist ideology is dualist. The dark force of Nazism fights against force of light, Russia. Hence, anyone who objects Russia *now* is Nazi. Finns, Poles and ofc Ukrainians. Having Ukrainian identity is itself a proof of your Nazism. If were not Nazi, you'd just become Russian
Nazism is when people support neo-Nazi ideology and use neo-Nazi symbols. Photo and video materials with neo-Nazi themes from Ukraine are enough on the Internet. NATO preferred not to notice this and provided them with assistance. This has nothing to do with criticism of Russia, Poles or Finns.
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Old 03-13-2022, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,234,324 times
Reputation: 1742
Quote:
Originally Posted by OutdoorLover View Post
That's certainly not what the witnesses in Ukraine to the Russian army attacks say. And as far as the "entire world", the UN General Assembly voted to condemn the Russian invasion 141 to 5. So the "entire world" is against Russia's attacks and the only "adequate" nations in the world according to your view seem to be the invaders - Russia, plus North Korea, Belarus, Eritrae and Syria. Just five nations, and not a free and democratic nation among them.

First, you can see who abstained from voting. And this is far from 5 countries.


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...1_vote.svg.png

Secondly, the condemnation of war is the condemnation of the method of solving the problem, but it is not means, that there is no the problem.

Thirdly, can you answer me why such large rallies were not held when the Ukrainian army carried out a punitive operation in eastern Ukraine in 2014-2015? During the conflict (2014-2021), several thousand civilians died there. And for some reason, no one saw this and did not gather rallies. Oh yes, I forgot, "this is their land".
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Old 03-13-2022, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Newburyport, MA
12,430 posts, read 9,529,208 times
Reputation: 15907
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post
First, you can see who abstained from voting. And this is far from 5 countries.

Secondly, the condemnation of war is the condemnation of the method of solving the problem, but it is not means, that there is no the problem.

Thirdly, can you answer me why such large rallies were not held when the Ukrainian army carried out a punitive operation in eastern Ukraine in 2014-2015? During the conflict (2014-2021), several thousand civilians died there. And for some reason, no one saw this and did not gather rallies. Oh yes, I forgot, "this is their land".
You said the whole world believes this Kremlin fairy tale about this invasion being a righteous military operation to root out Nazis! Like I said, the vote was 141-5. Even if we were to count all the abstainers for Russia - which would make no sense, as they didn't vote, and those who did were an avalanche against Russia, but I know the Kremlin line of argument - so, okay, even if we can't think too clearly and want to simply assert somehow that everyone who abstained was actually pro-invasion, they just didn't want to say so - it would *still* be overwhelming condemnation of the invasion.

Where are all the pro-invasion demonstrations around the world??? There are plenty of anti-invasion demonstrations, but if the world is as you claim, comrade, then were are all the pro-invasion demonstrations? I don't think think there are even many of those in Russia, and you are the people doing all the killing.
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Old 03-13-2022, 04:23 PM
 
6,326 posts, read 6,590,988 times
Reputation: 7457
Nazi Russia started this war in 2014. Crimea peninsula annexed. Donbas was inundated with Russian nazis from Russia and regular troops, 1 million of pro-Ukrainian population expelled, a few traitors and Russians operatives from Russia created Donbass Thuggery as a bleeding wound not to let Ukraine recover after 2014 disaster while Russia prepares for the final solution. Donbas Thuggery, where torture and terror rule, do not have an ounce of "independence", they are just avatars. Russia pulls all the strings. Everybody knows that including CD Russian nazi info troopers. Russia does not give a dime about Donbas civilians and traitors, it uses them as cannon fodder and propaganda background. I don't know how Russian nazis can keep straight face repeating their Donbas lies and bs, they know well that the rabid Kremlin rat could have stopped Donbas bloodshed in 1 minute or less with a snap of a finger, but he chose to inundate Donbas with tanks and heavy weapons instead. Russian psychopathy 101.
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Old 03-13-2022, 04:33 PM
 
572 posts, read 279,911 times
Reputation: 618
This is an excerpt from a typically long New Yorker interview. Full interview is behind a paywall.



Quote:
Kotkin on Russia and the West
by Alex Tabarrok

A great interview with historian Stephen Kotkin. Kotkin has some some thoughts on the Kennan, Mearsheimer, Kissinger, Hill, Service et al. view that expanding NATO was a precipitating event in the Ukraine-Russia war which are well taken, albeit he fails to think on the margin. Much more important is his full throated defense of the West. Just a few months ago a defense like this would have been branded as right-wing agitprop and the author attacked for not being woke to the evils of capitalism. But Putin has reminded the West of its virtues.

How do you define “the West”?

The West is a series of institutions and values. The West is not a geographical place. Russia is European, but not Western. Japan is Western, but not European. “Western” means rule of law, democracy, private property, open markets, respect for the individual, diversity, pluralism of opinion, and all the other freedoms that we enjoy, which we sometimes take for granted. We sometimes forget where they came from. But that’s what the West is.

...And yet, as corrupt as China is, they’ve lifted tens of millions of people out of extreme poverty. Education levels are rising. The Chinese leaders credit themselves with enormous achievements.

Who did that? Did the Chinese regime do that? Or Chinese society? Let’s be careful not to allow the Chinese Communists to expropriate, as it were, the hard labor, the entrepreneurialism, the dynamism of millions and millions of people in that society.

On a kind of natural resource curse:

...in Russia, wealth comes right up out of the ground! The problem for authoritarian regimes is not economic growth. The problem is how to pay the patronage for their élites, how to keep the élites loyal, especially the security services and the upper levels of the officer corps. If money just gushes out of the ground in the form of hydrocarbons or diamonds or other minerals, the oppressors can emancipate themselves from the oppressed. The oppressors can say, we don’t need you. We don’t need your taxes. We don’t need you to vote. We don’t rely on you for anything, because we have oil and gas, palladium and titanium.

On why the stupid get on top:

You have to remember that these regimes practice something called “negative selection.” [In a democracy, AT] You’re going to promote people to be editors, and you’re going to hire writers, because they’re talented; you’re not afraid if they’re geniuses. But, in an authoritarian regime, that’s not what they do. They hire people who are a little bit, as they say in Russian, tupoi, not very bright. They hire them precisely because they won’t be too competent, too clever, to organize a coup against them. Putin surrounds himself with people who are maybe not the sharpest tools in the drawer on purpose.

That does two things. It enables him to feel more secure, through all his paranoia, that they’re not clever enough to take him down. But it also diminishes the power of the Russian state because you have a construction foreman who’s the defense minister [Sergei Shoigu], and he was feeding Putin all sorts of nonsense about what they were going to do in Ukraine. Negative selection does protect the leader, but it also undermines his regime.

On the importance of error correction:

...Finally, you’ve given credit to the Biden Administration for reading out its intelligence about the coming invasion, for sanctions, and for a kind of mature response to what’s happening. What have they gotten wrong?

They’ve done much better than we anticipated based upon what we saw in Afghanistan and the botched run-up on the deal to sell nuclear submarines to the Australians. They’ve learned from their mistakes. That’s the thing about the United States. We have corrective mechanisms. We can learn from our mistakes. We have a political system that punishes mistakes. We have strong institutions. We have a powerful society, a powerful and free media. Administrations that perform badly can learn and get better, which is not the case in Russia or in China. It’s an advantage that we can’t forget.

And most importantly, we need to blaze a path to de-escalation.

The problem now is not that the Biden Administration made mistakes; it’s that it’s hard to figure out how to de-escalate, how to get out of the spiral of mutual maximalism. We keep raising the stakes with more and more sanctions and cancellations. There is pressure on our side to “do something” because the Ukrainians are dying every day while we are sitting on the sidelines, militarily, in some ways. (Although, as I said, we’re supplying them with arms, and we’re doing a lot in cyber.) The pressure is on to be maximalist on our side, but, the more you corner them, the more there’s nothing to lose for Putin, the more he can raise the stakes, unfortunately. He has many tools that he hasn’t used that can hurt us. We need a de-escalation from the maximalist spiral, and we need a little bit of luck and good fortune, perhaps in Moscow, perhaps in Helsinki or Jerusalem, perhaps in Beijing, but certainly in Kyiv.

Bonus

Way before NATO existed—in the nineteenth century—Russia looked like this: it had an autocrat. It had repression. It had militarism. It had suspicion of foreigners and the West. This is a Russia that we know, and it’s not a Russia that arrived yesterday or in the nineteen-nineties. It’s not a response to the actions of the West. There are internal processes in Russia that account for where we are today.

A great interview. Read the whole thing.
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