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Old 09-26-2017, 01:10 AM
 
5,428 posts, read 3,493,078 times
Reputation: 5031

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selen View Post
I don't like democracy when the population is uneducated. Like in the most middle eastern countries and Turkey. Uneducated people really have no idea about what's going on in the world and are very easy to be manipulated by charismatic leaders.However Russian people are educated. Maybe in a few decades they will become more democratic.
Most people in the world tend to be uneducated. It's an unfortunate fact of life. While I disagree with Scratt on most points, I do think democracy is hard to evaluate when we consider its application. How many countries have true representative democracies where citizens directly play a role in influencing politics? Most of the time it boils down to voting in politicians/parties on the basis of promises they made, but ultimately they get to choose how to implement those reforms and as can be seen, often decide to ignore them completely.

I wouldn't really lump Turkey with the other Arab countries in the ME or Iran, as despite the setbacks it faces it still remains a fairly secular society. I hope that doesn't change.
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Old 09-26-2017, 01:43 AM
 
Location: Ankara, Turkey
400 posts, read 292,637 times
Reputation: 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
I wouldn't really lump Turkey with the other Arab countries in the ME or Iran, as despite the setbacks it faces it still remains a fairly secular society. I hope that doesn't change.
I'm sure you know Turkey is not an Arab country.Secularity in Turkey is under constant attack unfortunately.My hope is something will change in the elections in 2019.
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Old 09-26-2017, 09:23 AM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,435,844 times
Reputation: 9092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selen View Post
I don't like democracy when the population is uneducated. Like in the most middle eastern countries and Turkey. Uneducated people really have no idea about what's going on in the world and are very easy to be manipulated by charismatic leaders.However Russian people are educated. Maybe in a few decades they will become more democratic.
I agree, ignorance is a terrible thing. Sadly because of the lifestyles of the large majority of humanity you can't get away from it apparently. I'm not saying people are idiots, idiocy is not ignorance. I know of few people who have the time to learn about the world around them. You fight ignorance with learning, learning takes time and when you're up to your ass in alligators its hard to remember the original goal was to drain the swamp.

Why do Russians have to become more democratic? What is your version of democracy? I simply don't think it exists in the world today. Freedom also is one of those bullet words with a ghostly meaning. No one on earth is free, ultimately we are told what to do by our stomachs on a daily basis.

The one word I think applies is liberty. Russians have a very high degree of liberty in their lives compared to many. The main requisite of liberty is stability. With stability people can grow up have children and build something in their lives. Instability does not allow this. War destroys homes and lives and wealth of whole peoples. War is the means of the ignorant, not the enlightened.

I think that because because of the current system in place concerning economics people the world over are losing their liberty at a growing rate. The disparity of weallth is destroying lives and crippling our progress.

I don't think Russians need democracy, whatever the hell it is. They need to stick to the course they're on and keep their stability and continue to build and keep a close eye on the ignorant of the west. A very close eye.
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Old 09-26-2017, 09:32 AM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,435,844 times
Reputation: 9092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
Most people in the world tend to be uneducated. It's an unfortunate fact of life. While I disagree with Scratt on most points, I do think democracy is hard to evaluate when we consider its application. How many countries have true representative democracies where citizens directly play a role in influencing politics? Most of the time it boils down to voting in politicians/parties on the basis of promises they made, but ultimately they get to choose how to implement those reforms and as can be seen, often decide to ignore them completely.

I wouldn't really lump Turkey with the other Arab countries in the ME or Iran, as despite the setbacks it faces it still remains a fairly secular society. I hope that doesn't change.
For the reason you stated I think democracy is just a joke. Some people can take it on faith. I'm not a man of faith.
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Old 09-26-2017, 09:36 AM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,435,844 times
Reputation: 9092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
While some of the problems faced by the US are worth considering, I fail to see how Russia offers a better standard of living.
By most measurable metrics, Russia performs poorly with regards to the West.
Russia is not the west. You need to change your glasses.
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Old 09-26-2017, 11:19 AM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,853,283 times
Reputation: 6690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
Russia is not the west. You need to change your glasses.
And you should probably brush up on English. You took a literal translation. He meant в отношении, по отношению к... not в отношении, что касается...
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Old 09-26-2017, 11:21 AM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,853,283 times
Reputation: 6690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post




Yes.



Yes.



Yes.



No. it's not interesting.



Russia defends the secular legitimate government. Russia does not want total chaos in the Middle East. And Russia bears losses. You can say "thank Russia" for this, but it's unlikely you are able to understand this.



You should ask this person: why does he/she have salary only $800 a month in Moscow? Maybe this person is a lazy a*s?



I live in the Moscow region last 7 years. What are you interested in?
Are you posting under 2 accounts? I last lived in the Moscow region many years before you did. I'm sure it looks better now as there was a lot of construction going on at the time. Not surprised that your government TV is ignoring the UN report on Crimea. Why would I expect state controlled propaganda to report on what's actually happening? It goes along with lying to Russians about their country doing better than it really is.
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Old 09-26-2017, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,228,964 times
Reputation: 1742
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
Are you posting under 2 accounts? I last lived in the Moscow region many years before you did. I'm sure it looks better now as there was a lot of construction going on at the time. Not surprised that your government TV is ignoring the UN report on Crimea. Why would I expect state controlled propaganda to report on what's actually happening? It goes along with lying to Russians about their country doing better than it really is.
I rested in the Crimea this year. And in the past. And in 2011 and 2012. I think I have an idea about the Crimea.
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Old 09-26-2017, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
5,699 posts, read 4,922,938 times
Reputation: 4942
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post
I rested in the Crimea this year. And in the past. And in 2011 and 2012. I think I have an idea about the Crimea.
Hey Maksim, just curious have you spoken with locals in Crimea, particularly Tatars as well as Ukrainians? I heard that schools don't offer Ukrainian language any longer in Crimea. I also heard there are a lot of raids in Tatar communities and a lot of Tatars getting arrested. But this is mainly from western news sources, My dad who still keeps in touch with family and friends has no bad news to share so was just wondering from your point of view.
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Old 09-26-2017, 02:29 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,853,283 times
Reputation: 6690
Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
Hey Maksim, just curious have you spoken with locals in Crimea, particularly Tatars as well as Ukrainians? I heard that schools don't offer Ukrainian language any longer in Crimea. I also heard there are a lot of raids in Tatar communities and a lot of Tatars getting arrested. But this is mainly from western news sources, My dad who still keeps in touch with family and friends has no bad news to share so was just wondering from your point of view.
Well I have sat down and conversed with Tatars. I don't think I ever met a "Ukrainian" in Crimea. The Tatars are not thrilled at all about what happened. This is due to things like the closing of their Majilis and the use of fake laws against "extremism" to oppress them. The old ones know what Russians are all about... and so does the UN apparently. They weren't exactly happy with Ukraine either it should be noted.

Russians ignore what is inconvenient to their narrative. Tatars not happy about the forced annexation. Ethnic Russians in Ukraine who want to part of Europe. The fact that many people don't like their government which exists to protect the elite. On and on.
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