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Old 12-16-2017, 06:54 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,128 posts, read 24,801,188 times
Reputation: 11103

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Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
There was definitely a plan to make Russia a docile integrated member of the international world order.
And how on Earth would this have been anything negative?
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Old 12-16-2017, 07:30 AM
 
Location: South Jersey
14,497 posts, read 9,430,555 times
Reputation: 5251
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
I'm not a "pro Russian" but I can definitely see where the West is going with this...it is so obvious...
Yet you fill up this thread with pro-Russian posts...

You said in another thread you were an Italian citizen. I'm just curious, because I've heard Italy is a relatively pro-Russia country. Are Italians generally more sympathetic to Russia compared to other Western Europeans?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3I3Ec2xGg4
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Old 12-16-2017, 09:06 AM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,438,768 times
Reputation: 9092
Mostik the Cat. Honorary Construction Supervisor of the Kerch Bridge Project.

https://sputniknews.com/viral/201712...tik-the-bridge

https://www.instagram.com/cat_the_most/?hl=en
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Old 12-16-2017, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,231,086 times
Reputation: 1742
I think I found the answer to my question. Everything is very simple and has analogies in painting. To write ordinary poems and songs in the modern world is insanely boring. Modern science and technology can do this for almost everyone. Therefore, contemporary authors go into outrageous. Acute social themes, vulgar vocabulary, strange sound...

Vasya Lozhkin:

https://youtu.be/586eyeY3To0

Krovostok:

https://youtu.be/LK5m20AKG_s

Rabfaq:

https://youtu.be/j3rnWXegtHw

Elizarov:

https://youtu.be/amS29vUX_ro
etc.

And it's very cool, if you can appreciate it.
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Old 12-16-2017, 02:43 PM
 
3,950 posts, read 3,301,330 times
Reputation: 1692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
And how on Earth would this have been anything negative?
To the Russians was very negative, especially when you consider the plundering....
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Old 12-16-2017, 02:51 PM
 
3,950 posts, read 3,301,330 times
Reputation: 1692
Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
Yet you fill up this thread with pro-Russian posts...

You said in another thread you were an Italian citizen. I'm just curious, because I've heard Italy is a relatively pro-Russia country. Are Italians generally more sympathetic to Russia compared to other Western Europeans?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3I3Ec2xGg4

I have 3 citizenship and none of them is Russian.

My posts are not pro-Russians, they are simply thoughts of someone capable to think with his own head and see through the propaganda...from both sides....the Russians do have a point in this case.

Certain segments of the Italian population were very pro-Soviet because Italy had the largest Communist Party in the western world at that era...that is not longer the case...

Last edited by saturno_v; 12-16-2017 at 03:29 PM..
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Old 12-16-2017, 03:46 PM
 
3,950 posts, read 3,301,330 times
Reputation: 1692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
Let’s look at the 2016 election. In California over 30 % of people voted for Trump, yet the state went to Hillary. It’s as if those 30% + people never voted.

....that 30% was the minority and the state went to Hillary...


Quote:
I’m not sure I understand your “dictatorship of large cities” comment. A larger proportion of the population lives in urban areas, therefore it’s only logical they would have a larger say in matters.
The Electoral College perform some sort of "proportional correction" to the straight majority rule (a proportional system is common in many European parliamentary democracies) to make a bit more difficult for people of, let's say, LA or New York to impose policies that make no sense in North Dakota....

The election of two senators per state, no matter the population size, goes in that direction as well, it is an equalizer.....the United States is a federation of states, it is not like France.

Without the Electoral College, a presidential candidate would need to campaign only in the major cities and forget the rest.
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Old 12-16-2017, 03:49 PM
 
3,950 posts, read 3,301,330 times
Reputation: 1692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post

It was a transitional period. Problems were bound to happen. Russia’s products were not well suited for a free market economy because most its products served the needs of the government in power. Perestroika was an attempt to slowly bring about change.
The transition was very badly executed and the Perestroika, in the end, was a disaster.....the Chinese managed their transformation much better, the rigid Capital controls alone are an excellent example.



Quote:
Anyone can post links. What if I decided to pull out some article penned by Kasparov or Masha Gessen?
If Kasparov says that Putin is authoritarian, obviously I agree with him

Last edited by saturno_v; 12-16-2017 at 04:19 PM..
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Old 12-16-2017, 04:12 PM
 
3,950 posts, read 3,301,330 times
Reputation: 1692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
Plenty of countries have had foreign advisors. Why would the US want to eliminate Russia when it benefits from a large successful capitalist country. You can hate globalisation all you want, but it’s the reason you’re sitting in Seattle today.
These advisors often give catastrophic advice and, more often than not, they have a clear conflict of interests......Charles Ferguson fantastic expose' "Inside Job" is a very good primer on how this works.....
Furthermore, one thing is globalization (which I support), another is casino capitalism.



Quote:
I’ll give you the same answer I gave regarding BRICS.If either Russia or China decide to establish a base in any of those countries then let them do so. Who cares what the US thinks. Knock yourself out. As long as the host country agrees to it, I see nothing wrong with it. Mexico or Cuba are sovereign nations, therefore the choice lies with them. If the US complains I’ll give you the same answer I gave regarding NATO expansion.
In theory I totally agree with you....you are preaching to the choir, I would love to live in a perfect, idealistic world but you can be assured that the US reaction would be absolutely furious with serious consequences (and it has been proven over and over that when it comes to US Foreign Policy, often rules apply only to someone else)...why Russia has to play according to our idealistic scenario and the West doesn't?? Same with the self-determination principle applied only when is convenient....Real Politik my friend....


Quote:
Some 70 years ago someone said the same thing about Austria, Danzig and other territories. I wonder what happened afterward.
I do not recall Austria having a referendum on annexation or a anti-Germany hostile coup d'etat before the Anschluss...if anything, the Austrian Nazi Party itself was performing a terror campaign in Austria before the annexation......comparing the two is nonsense.


Quote:
Why would Taiwan wish to join a country that has a lower standard of living. There’s also the complication coming from the fact that both China and Taiwan wish to claim ownership of the other country as they each view themselves as the rightful representatives of such country.
Mine was a rhetorical question...
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Old 12-16-2017, 05:14 PM
 
5,428 posts, read 3,495,021 times
Reputation: 5031
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
These advisors often give catastrophic advice and, more often than not, they have a clear conflict of interests......Charles Ferguson fantastic expose' "Inside Job" is a very good primer on how this works.....
Furthermore, one thing is globalization (which I support), another is casino capitalism.

Having a docile, economically sound Russia would be beneficial to the west. I mean Russia was Coke’s second largest market. That’s why the notion of crippling a country makes no sense to me as it goes against business. Look at the transformation experienced by countries such as Japan, SK, Singapore, Vietnam. Sure not all of them were socialist, but they underwent economic reforms that lead to where they are.


Quote:
In theory I totally agree with you....you are preaching to the choir, I would love to live in a perfect, idealistic world but you can be assured that the US reaction would be absolutely furious with serious consequences (and it has been proven over and over that when it comes to US Foreign Policy, often rules apply only to someone else)...why Russia has to play according to our idealistic scenario and the West doesn't?? Same with the self-determination principle applied only when is convenient....Real Politik my friend....
We don’t t live in an idealistic world and likely never will. That’s why I said that if the US or any Western country were to get annoyed at the establishment of bases near their border I would tell them off as well. Of course, by extension I’m criticising Russia for complaining about NATO bases. Many posters on this board claim that Russia is a pacifist country (no such country exists), yet talk about spheres of influence. The two terms are anathema to one other. You can’t be pacifist, yet talk about spheres. A sphere is essentially a dominion, meaning you’re claiming that those neighboring countries are you vassals which is the equivalent of imperialism.

That being said I’m incredibly biased towards western countries and feel no shame admitting it. I don’t see any reason why I shouldn’t be. I’m a utilitarian person by nature so I wil back things that are beneficial to me individually or society in general. What benefit do I get from China becoming a superpower? Will I ever be able to become a full citizen over there? Wilt they remove their censorship or improve social rights for individuals including freedom of speech? I find these things far more valuable then whether country X attacked country Y.

My original point stands nonetheless. If any country wishes to establish a permanent presence elsewhere, it’s up to them and the host country to determine that, regardless of my or another country’s personal feelings toward it. The same applies to the whole situation with Ukraine. I’m criticising the pretext Russia used to expand its territory rather than the notion that it must be aligned with the west.

Quote:
I do not recall Austria having a referendum on annexation or a anti-Germany hostile coup d'etat before the Anschluss...if anything, the Austrian Nazi Party itself was performing a terror campaign in Austria before the annexation......comparing the two is nonsense.
The point is that Hitler annexed all territories where German was spoken. Putin himself has stated in the past that he wants all Russian speaking territories under a single country, which then rises the question of territories inside Russia inhabited by minorities.

I’m not so sure there really was a coup either. That’s what the Russian side keeps saying, but the term “coup” has lost all meaning as of late. I see it being used everywhere by unsatisfied people to try and justify situations. We saw the same thing happen in the US during the last election or the French one where Russia was accused of interference. If Russia can claim the west interfered in Ukraine, then it’s only fair the reverse be pointed at them.

If coups were such a big deal, especially western sponsored ones, as peopl like o call them, then why are oppos coups celebrated, such as Castro’s one in 1959?
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