Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The Germans really just wanted Leningrad's people to die off right? They didn't want to feed them so didn't want to occupy it. It was strategically pointless since they controlled the entire Baltic... sick stuff.
Yes, there was actually Hitler's order to starve it. Finally we agree! Yes Baltic sea was full with mines too.
I doubt they took any prisoners then. Neither did Russians.
Hang on Maxim, I need to translate this gem... At least the basic lines, at least partially)))
Patriotically-erotic song.
America doesn't like us,
Great Britain doesn't like us
Germany doesn't like us
Already for many centuries
France doesn't like us
Japan doesn't like us
With other words
Nobody likes us,
But everyone wants to f***ck us.
But we, but we
We can't live without love
And we, we don't want
To have intercourse without love.
For us the feeling of love
Is the most important one
And without love you can't have us.
...OK, we can understand you guys-
It's not easy to love us,
But before you'll try to get under our skirt,
You should be aware of something;
May be you'll be disappointed,
But Russia is a woman with a d**ck.
So it will be better for you
To not to pull your pants down,
When we are around)))
ROTFLMAO))))
Hillarious!!!
But, ... I cannot help myself...something is wrong with his left ear...
Here is another good one of his:
Well no they did not say that at all. They simply said the direct evidence was lacking. Without saying the reason the evidence is lacking (they destroyed the evidence). Their mechanism doesn't work when the state is the one doing the cheating because it controls the anti doping agency. Cheaters get their flag removed from the games and they blame America LOL.
Yeah. Direct evidence was lacking. No accuser could back up what they were saying. Theoretical holes in the wall are speculation about the process. The scratches on the bottles could have gotten there in many ways. Not to mention the politically motivated aspects of this makes it highly suspect.
The Germans really just wanted Leningrad's people to die off right? They didn't want to feed them so didn't want to occupy it. It was strategically pointless since they controlled the entire Baltic... sick stuff.
Strategically Germany couldn't get involved in a knock down drag out fight for the city at that time. The Russian defense of Leningrad and it's approaches was one of the bright spots of 1941. The Russians threw some curve balls and made it very costly for the Wehrmacht, in September Army Group North was almost bled white. Considering what the Russians faced and had to work with it was a major feat too.
The decision was made to cut the rail lines to the city then blockade it so as to starve it out of existence. Take note that the Germans intended to wipe the population out or drive it into the wilderness. Subduing the city was not considered, it was about it's destruction. Such were the thoughts of people who considered themselves on a mission from god and would never have to answer for their crimes.
Sorry, Scrat. I really really do not think so.
You cannot find it on internet (and neither am I - I looked into it) - because it did not happened.
I personally wanted to believe that Mannerheim did something like this - he was Chairman of Finnish Red Cross 1922-1951 and involved in Child Welfare Association but I could not find anything supporting your statement. Finns actually "harassing" the Road of Life to a point That Churchill had to send them a letter - to stop or else. Finns also captured families that managed to escape from Leningrad. Where those families were sent? Probably to Finnish concentration camps...
I admire Mannerheim for what he was as a person and truly believe personally that Mannerheim’s reservedness and wisdom had saved Leningrad from destruction. Well, hell, Finland too.
I am trying to get his memoirs on eBay or amazon if they will go below $100 just to learn the truth "from the horses mouth".
Red Cross was accused after WWII for not helping enough. Hitler (or rather Himmler) let them send packages to Allies POWs, closed their eyes on almost entire Dutch Jewish population escaping to Sweden.
But refused any help to Soviet POWS.
If something like what you think happened - it would be all over the internet (including Finnish).
And, if Ariete says it did not happen - take his word for it...
Red Cross said it did not help Soviets because the USSR did not sign Geneva Convention and the Red Cross could only operate in countries that allowed it to operate. In August 1941 Soviets agreed to set up an office in Ankara to exchange lists of POWs with Germans but it did not go far.
Anyway, here is a timeline of the siege: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effect...ion_evacuation
and scroll to p.5 Civilian evacuation.
You will see the Three Waves of evacuation. You are absolutely right - Russian evacuated children first.
First Wave in August 1941 336000 civilians mostly children were evacuated.
Could be still possible by train... but to Northern Russia and Siberia together with industrial stuff, Hermitage treasures, etc..
But last two waves were through lake Ladoga to Russia.
There is no way they could have done it through Baltic sea.
The bottom line is:
The pictures that you saw could be Finnish Red Cross evacuating Finns during the Winter War to Sweden and Norway - it did happen. Could be Finn children from Soviet territories? I don't know.
Or the First Wave Russian evacuation by Russians - all Russian trucks , trains, ships that evacuated wounded had red crosses on them (on top too), but they were bombed by Germans anyway...
No. I saw this in an old hardcover book about Leningrad probably 30+ years ago. The picture I remember most distinctly was Red Cross nurses with little kids in front of a brick building and it was in Helsinki. They were all dressed up against the cold. Sweden and Norway were both mentioned too. I have never seen this in any other literature I have read about Leningrad.
I'm starting to wonder if it wasn't on an old newspaper microfiche at the Tacoma Library.
4 Russians identified who died in Syria after American forces bombed the group attacking SDF positions. First time in a long time that the US Army has killed Russians opposing them in armed conflict. 3 of whom were identified as previously fighting in Ukraine (as tourists no doubt)
Both you and Ari are incorrect. Finland Sweden and Norway via the Red Cross took in Russian orphans from Leningrad. I remember pictures of an orphanage Helsinki funded by the Red Cross and another in Oslo. Of note is what the Finnish nurses were wearing. Ushankas and great coats like Russians wore in the winter. Damned if I can find anything on the internet about it though.
Children were most of the first individuals to be evacuated and the vast majority were shipped by train throughout the Soviet Union to orphanages. 100s of 1000s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Straight Arrow
Sorry, Scrat. I really really do not think so.
You cannot find it on internet (and neither am I - I looked into it) - because it did not happened.
I personally wanted to believe that Mannerheim did something like this - he was Chairman of Finnish Red Cross 1922-1951 and involved in Child Welfare Association but I could not find anything supporting your statement. Finns actually "harassing" the Road of Life to a point That Churchill had to send them a letter - to stop or else. Finns also captured families that managed to escape from Leningrad. Where those families were sent? Probably to Finnish concentration camps...
I have no knowledge of Russian children from Leningrad being evacuated to Finland. The Finnish lines were still 20 km north of the city, and very dangerous. The orders were that in fear of the Soviet army using civilians as shields, all possible major movements of people should be shot at.
Most civilians the Finnish troops did capture were sent to transit camps, and to be exchanged for Finnish, Ingrian and Estonian civilians Germans had captured after the ultimate victory.
Mannerheim knew the Russians well, but was first and foremost a strategist. To actively try to attack such a large city would take a lot of reserves and be costly, and in that case the front further north might be compromised. But he also knew the importance of Leningrad to the Russians. Never in his adult life did he put all-in on one hand, so if things was to get sour (as it did), the total destruction of Leningrad could've meant that the Russians would might take massive revenge on Finland, and maybe do the same to Helsinki for example.
Finally, Hitler's aim was to destroy the whole beautiful city and raze it to the ground, a thing which was completely unthinkable for Mannerheim and the mostly well-educated upper-class generals in the Finnish army.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Straight Arrow
The bottom line is:
The pictures that you saw could be Finnish Red Cross evacuating Finns during the Winter War to Sweden and Norway - it did happen. Could be Finn children from Soviet territories? I don't know.
Or the First Wave Russian evacuation by Russians - all Russian trucks , trains, ships that evacuated wounded had red crosses on them (on top too), but they were bombed by Germans anyway...
Most likely Finnish war children evacuated to Sweden, Norway and Denmark. There were almost 90,000 of them.
4 Russians identified who died in Syria after American forces bombed the group attacking SDF positions. First time in a long time that the US Army has killed Russians opposing them in armed conflict. 3 of whom were identified as previously fighting in Ukraine (as tourists no doubt)
Russia has mercs too. In 2014 a lot of Russians came to fight in the Donbas, that's undeniable. Some came for the thrill and a chance to kick fascist butt, some came for money. Same in Syria.
As for those pics I could be wrong but I doubt it. I'm going to keep looking. I just talked to a librarian/archivist in Bellevue Wa. She said it could have come through various means from the original country and I might have luck there. Not all material is archived and to find one article that far back or a book on such a specific matter/incident that may not have been widely published may be next to impossible. She said to get hold of a large library in Finnland or even the one in St Pete.
Good way to prevent having to pay them pensions or expose what they did in Ukraine...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
