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Old 03-23-2018, 04:38 PM
 
3,950 posts, read 3,302,106 times
Reputation: 1693

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post


If you are saying that Ukrainians want to go back to having Yanukovich run the country, you're delusional. Leaving Russia out of it, this kind of governance is what they fought to remove forever.

Putin has clearly stated in an interview that he knew very well that Yanukovich was not popular and he was a goner., expected to be replaced at the next election which were few month down the road from the coup d'etat in Kiev..the issue in the Ukraine-Crimea crisis was not about him....
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Old 03-23-2018, 05:07 PM
 
12,022 posts, read 11,572,686 times
Reputation: 11136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
You're right, I keep forgetting that the country that inherited the Soviet Union was so nice. I'm sure the KGB were just handing out chocolate Easter bunnies in other Warsaw Pact nations.

I've heard some people claim that Bataclan was a false flag.

Do you believe that 9/11 was a false flag as well? Do you believe that the Apollo landings were faked to get the Soviet Union to overspend? I'm sure that the landings were shot somewhere in the deserts of Arizona or New Mexico and then Photoshoped. Photoshop wan't around in the 60's you say? Time travel dude.
.
It doesn't matter that Bataclan was or was not a false flag. There were essentially no real attacks on Europe or the US mainland until Russia entered the war in Syria against ISIS. The attack was intended to draw the US and NATO into the war to fight Russia and the Syrian government. Since the US, UK, KSA, and others are responsible for the creation and sustenance of these groups, they are ultimately responsible even if they don't have total control. It is called blowback. It was warned about in the various US and European newspapers as far back as 2013.
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Old 03-23-2018, 05:14 PM
 
26,787 posts, read 22,549,184 times
Reputation: 10038
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
85% of Novorussia is under Ukrainian government control. Life is peaceful and stable there. Big part of my family live in novorussia and I visit them, so I do know this first hand. In Russian occupied Novorussia, its an economic wasteland with no rule of law and barely functioning society. The majority of people from there fled to the rest of Ukraine and are waiting for dear Putin to let them come back to their homes in peace.
Ahh.... so your family IS from there after all, I see it now officially, even though I was thinking that it was a case all along. See, no matter where you were born in this case, your way of arguing is quite typical for Russians/Ukrainians ( I am not aware of any real differences.) That is to disregard objective facts and to insist on what they find desirable.
I was not a big fan of this approach initially, but then with time I realized that this is part of what makes Russians so determined and head-strong - the conviction in their own beliefs.
Now. Since I never had this kind of determination, but had tendency to constantly question things, I'll repeat again, taking different factors in consideration, that in response to American meddling into Ukrainian affairs, Putin should have put a stop to this BS by bringing the troops into the Eastern part of Ukraine for real.
I know he had plans for that, and from what I understand, it's the *liberal* part of his government, responsible for finances (Greff et al,) that talked him out of it.
On another hand, if Putin wouldn't have listened to his *financial wizards* a la Greff admired by the Wall Street, he wouldn't be what he REALLY is.
So. No matter what you are trying to convince us here, the coup d'etat indeed took place in Ukraine, sponsored by the US government. But in this particular case things didn't go according to usual narrative about "peace and democracy," because we can't talk about anything "democratic" in case of paramilitary units dictating government what to do, as it was on Maidan.
What is going on there now, as the consequences of it all, is already a whole different story, because a lot of people initially being pro-Russian, already lost any hope looking at Putin's betrayal. That is not to count those, that escaped in panic to Russia, or those that were murdered by the punitive Ukrainian battalions. So yes, taking all that in consideration, the "South-East" is voting "pro-Ukrainian" now, as the "polls show," and it's "peaceful" there, once the "Ukrainian patriots" ( or "activists" as they are referred to in the media) are patrolling the streets.

Last edited by erasure; 03-23-2018 at 05:35 PM..
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Old 03-23-2018, 05:26 PM
 
3,950 posts, read 3,302,106 times
Reputation: 1693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
Read my previous response. Credible leadership is determined by what other countries think of you. To simplify the scenario a bit further, I would say that getting recognition from the five permanent members of the UN security council is an absolute necessity. Only those who manage to get it from all five nations will get to establish their credibility. If even so much as one of them has a problem with you, things will start becoming complicated. The US, UK and France don't recognize Assad's rule (that's 60%), therefore what he says is irrelevant.

I've given a number of examples that no one's countered to validate my point.

Israel declared Jerusalem as it's capital way back in 1948. Very few countries recognize it. Does that make Israel's claim valid?

North Cyprus declared it's independence following Turkey's occupation, yet no one recognizes the country. However, if you go to Nicosia you will see a wall separating the two parts and the North actually has it's own government.

Argentina claims the Falkland Islands, yet they are a British Overseas Territory.

Same goes for Palestine and Kosovo where you have enclaves of nations that recognize them, while others don't. To those who don't recognize either one of them or both of them, does that country's position matter?

Just look at Taiwan. A highly developed country that does not maintain diplomatic relations with a host of nations because they fear upsetting the One China Policy.

My point is that Assad can say or do whatever he wants. However, having several big nations go against you, makes your regime lose it's value. I'm sorry to say this, but what the US, UK and France think is very important and they are hardly the only ones.

Recognition is everything my friend. Without it, I might as well claim that I'm Emperor of the Earth. Unless my claim can be substantiated, it's paper in the wind.

Big difference...Assad was in power for long time and he was the accepted leader of Syria....sorry, the UN Permanent Security Council cannot revoke a country recognition on a whim nor it can start a military action.....the only power the Permanent Members have is to veto resolutions (and that should be taken away IMHO)

Syria was never a model of democracy before all of this mess started (ignited by the Iraq war, let's keep that in mind) neither are so many other countries recognized by the UN....some of them brutal dictatorships.

Invading another country and/or making territorial claims is a different story.

Last edited by saturno_v; 03-23-2018 at 05:39 PM..
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Old 03-23-2018, 07:16 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,858,538 times
Reputation: 6690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
More on the Khinzhal hypersonic missile. It's a variant of the 9M723-1F medium range ballistic missile used on the Iskander system.

Putin's Air-Launched Hypersonic Weapon Appears To Be A Modified Iskander Ballistic Missile - The Drive

This system has a lot of potential.
Its a ram-jet which means it has to be launch from a moving airplane. This limitation makes it far inferior to our scramjets from 10 years ago, not just that its half the speed.
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Old 03-23-2018, 07:18 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,858,538 times
Reputation: 6690
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
Putin has clearly stated in an interview that he knew very well that Yanukovich was not popular and he was a goner., expected to be replaced at the next election which were few month down the road from the coup d'etat in Kiev..the issue in the Ukraine-Crimea crisis was not about him....
They had their election 3 months from the coup. Putin did not allow elections in the Russian occupied territories...unless you believe he did not control what was happening in his fake republics.
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Old 03-23-2018, 07:34 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,858,538 times
Reputation: 6690
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Ahh.... so your family IS from there after all, I see it now officially, even though I was thinking that it was a case all along. See, no matter where you were born in this case, your way of arguing is quite typical for Russians/Ukrainians ( I am not aware of any real differences.) That is to disregard objective facts and to insist on what they find desirable.
I was not a big fan of this approach initially, but then with time I realized that this is part of what makes Russians so determined and head-strong - the conviction in their own beliefs.
Now. Since I never had this kind of determination, but had tendency to constantly question things, I'll repeat again, taking different factors in consideration, that in response to American meddling into Ukrainian affairs, Putin should have put a stop to this BS by bringing the troops into the Eastern part of Ukraine for real.
I know he had plans for that, and from what I understand, it's the *liberal* part of his government, responsible for finances (Greff et al,) that talked him out of it.
On another hand, if Putin wouldn't have listened to his *financial wizards* a la Greff admired by the Wall Street, he wouldn't be what he REALLY is.
So. No matter what you are trying to convince us here, the coup d'etat indeed took place in Ukraine, sponsored by the US government. But in this particular case things didn't go according to usual narrative about "peace and democracy," because we can't talk about anything "democratic" in case of paramilitary units dictating government what to do, as it was on Maidan.
What is going on there now, as the consequences of it all, is already a whole different story, because a lot of people initially being pro-Russian, already lost any hope looking at Putin's betrayal. That is not to count those, that escaped in panic to Russia, or those that were murdered by the punitive Ukrainian battalions. So yes, taking all that in consideration, the "South-East" is voting "pro-Ukrainian" now, as the "polls show," and it's "peaceful" there, once the "Ukrainian patriots" ( or "activists" as they are referred to in the media) are patrolling the streets.
I am not of Ukrainian or Russian descent. I'm 90% German, Danish and British (slavic 5%) and have ancestors who lived in the USA since the 1776 revolution. Fought for the south in the civil war. Fought nazis in France.

Its not up to me to educate you on how families are formed...

You are making up what happened because "your" story was what Putin's TV came up with to justify starting a war in Ukraine to keep it from joining Europe. Funny thing is, Putin turned all those Pro Russian Ukrainians into anti-Russians. These people I know literally had Russian flags in their cars 5 years ago. That's why he hasn't invaded any further because he would send what's left of Russia's young generation to their premature deaths. The only people patrolling southeast Ukraine are the local police. They would enjoy explaining it all to you in person why you're wrong about them, so take a flight and head east of odessa a few hundred miles...
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Old 03-23-2018, 08:05 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,858,538 times
Reputation: 6690
10 more EU countries are booting Russian diplomats over the nerve agent attack in the UK. Macron calls it an attack on European sovereignty. Maybe Europe needs to watch some pervy kanal to learn of all the theories how it was someone else.
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Old 03-23-2018, 09:10 PM
 
5,428 posts, read 3,497,292 times
Reputation: 5031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
Looking back at all the facts and what has happened since, I have not been able to snuff out my suspicions. God does not exist is statement that cannot be proven a fact.
I'll openly admit that it's not entirely implausible, however none of the conspiracy theories presented have been able to justify their position. One of the most popular claims is that because the buildings collapsed over their foundations, controlled demolition was involved.

The buildings were hit by 767's at a very high altitude . The North Tower somewhere around the 90th floor, while the South one was hit in the 60's. Incidentally, the South Tower collapsed before the North one did. For a building to collapse vertically it would have to encounter it's structural failure at a very low altitude near the base, so that the building is no longer able to support it's own weight.
That's not how it played out.

The impact caused all the fuel to burn up rapidly, weakening the building's steel structure to the point that the upper levels had become so brittle that the floors started toppling like dominoes. One floor crashing into another. It makes sense why the buildings fell over their foundations.

The biggest controversy comes from WTC 7, which fell many hours later, apparently due to a fire. Given that a 20 story building fell in Iran last year as a result of an uncontrollable fire, I think that the official explanation can be accounted for.
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Old 03-23-2018, 09:14 PM
 
26,787 posts, read 22,549,184 times
Reputation: 10038
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
I am not of Ukrainian or Russian descent. I'm 90% German, Danish and British (slavic 5%) and have ancestors who lived in the USA since the 1776 revolution. Fought for the south in the civil war. Fought nazis in France.
Then who are your relatives in Eastern Ukraine? Are they German or Danish?

Quote:
Its not up to me to educate you on how families are formed...
No, it's not up to you, since I am coming from EXTREMELY mixed family as well, but I know a thing or two about genetics)))

Quote:
You are making up what happened because "your" story was what Putin's TV came up with to justify starting a war in Ukraine to keep it from joining Europe.
Did I mention I don't have "Putin's TV" since I don't live in Russia?
(I think I did.)


Quote:
Funny thing is, Putin turned all those Pro Russian Ukrainians into anti-Russians. These people I know literally had Russian flags in their cars 5 years ago.
Sorry I don't believe in these fairy-tales. People that "literally had Russian flags in their cars five years ago," kept on waving them shortly after the coup d'etat. People that used to wave them, but turned bitter afterwards did so NOT because "Putin invaded Ukraine," but because he abandoned and betrayed them.



Quote:
That's why he hasn't invaded any further because he would send what's left of Russia's young generation to their premature deaths.
Sorry, I prefer to believe not your fairy-tales, but what Strelkov-Girkin said about the whole situation when he was there. And what he said was that Eastern part of Ukraine could have been taken practically with no resistance and no losses. ( Now of course it's not a case.)

Quote:
The only people patrolling southeast Ukraine are the local police. They would enjoy explaining it all to you in person why you're wrong about them, so take a flight and head east of odessa a few hundred miles...
Surre... As if I don't hear/see what's going on there, Odessa including, where you hear now plenty of *Ukrainian dialects,* that are not native for the area at all.
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