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Old 10-06-2018, 01:14 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,854,455 times
Reputation: 6690

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alec Solano View Post
Its not true.
Ukraine have 40% population with totalitarian post-USSR mindset. It is main probleme for this country.
That's called the people over 45. Thankfully they are not growing in numbers. The new generation was polled and only 1% of young Ukrainians want a Russian style political system. Poor Russians, their future is not looking as hopeful. In southern Russia a few days ago:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmlf85Ok1N8
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Old 10-06-2018, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Russia
2,216 posts, read 1,020,797 times
Reputation: 946
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
That's called the people over 45. Thankfully they are not growing in numbers. The new generation was polled and only 1% of young Ukrainians want a Russian style political system. Poor Russians, their future is not looking as hopeful. In southern Russia a few days ago:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmlf85Ok1N8
It would have been fine, but it was a couple of years ago, against the caricatures that those same Charly Ebdo released.
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Old 10-06-2018, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Europe
4,692 posts, read 1,164,380 times
Reputation: 924
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
That's called the people over 45. Thankfully they are not growing in numbers. The new generation was polled and only 1% of young Ukrainians want a Russian style political system. P]
Young people mainly don't take part in elections unfortunately.
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Old 10-06-2018, 02:25 PM
 
12,022 posts, read 11,567,188 times
Reputation: 11136
Proposal for censorship in academia

"Western governments should ‘re-focus financial support for Russia-related academic programs from culture and history to in-depth analysis of Russia’s authoritarianism, kleptocracy and corrupt practices’. So says a new report issued this week by the Institute for Modern Russia, a think-tank funded by former Russian oligarch Mikhail Khodorkovsky. For God forbid that students should learn about Russian culture and history before expressing any opinions about that country. Knowing some culture and history might lead to understanding, which might lead to sympathy or at least empathy, and thus to a desire to engage in dialogue, find mutual solutions to international problems, and all the rest of it. And that, of course, would be dangerous. Ignorance is much to be preferred."

No history. No culture

The two systems become more like each other once you peer under the hood. That was predicted some 28 years ago after the fall of the Soviet Union.
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Old 10-06-2018, 05:07 PM
 
26,778 posts, read 22,534,034 times
Reputation: 10037
Quote:
Originally Posted by lchoro View Post
Proposal for censorship in academia

"Western governments should ‘re-focus financial support for Russia-related academic programs from culture and history to in-depth analysis of Russia’s authoritarianism, kleptocracy and corrupt practices’. So says a new report issued this week by the Institute for Modern Russia, a think-tank funded by former Russian oligarch Mikhail Khodorkovsky. For God forbid that students should learn about Russian culture and history before expressing any opinions about that country. Knowing some culture and history might lead to understanding, which might lead to sympathy or at least empathy, and thus to a desire to engage in dialogue, find mutual solutions to international problems, and all the rest of it. And that, of course, would be dangerous. Ignorance is much to be preferred."

No history. No culture

The two systems become more like each other once you peer under the hood. That was predicted some 28 years ago after the fall of the Soviet Union.

"Western governments should ‘re-focus financial support for Russia-related academic programs from culture and history to in-depth analysis of Russia’s authoritarianism, kleptocracy and corrupt practices’. So says a new report issued this week by the Institute for Modern Russia, a think-tank funded by former Russian oligarch Mikhail Khodorkovsky."

Look who is talking, none else but Khodorkovsky, whose *fortune* has been built on said above "corrupt practices" and then some more.

What a clown.
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Old 10-06-2018, 05:17 PM
 
26,778 posts, read 22,534,034 times
Reputation: 10037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alec Solano View Post
Young people mainly don't take part in elections unfortunately.
Alec...
From what I see on my FB, Russians in the Eastern part of Ukraine hate Poroshenko, but they are skeptical about the rest of their politicians too. And that's what makes them to be indifferent to elections - the absence of any viable alternatives, the understanding of it.
That is not to say they like Putin - they don't want anything to do with him, BUT... had Russia had normal government, that's where they'd be looking for guidance - at Moscow, not Kiev.

Last edited by erasure; 10-06-2018 at 06:00 PM..
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Old 10-07-2018, 01:22 AM
 
Location: Europe
4,692 posts, read 1,164,380 times
Reputation: 924
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Alec...
From what I see on my FB, Russians in the Eastern part of Ukraine hate Poroshenko, but they are skeptical about the rest of their politicians too. And that's what makes them to be indifferent to elections - the absence of any viable alternatives, the understanding of it.
That is not to say they like Putin - they don't want anything to do with him, BUT... had Russia had normal government, that's where they'd be looking for guidance - at Moscow, not Kiev.
They themselves must build their own destiny and government on their territory. This should not be a guidancel from outside. People deserve the government they have. At all times.
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Old 10-07-2018, 01:25 AM
 
Location: Europe
4,692 posts, read 1,164,380 times
Reputation: 924
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
that's where they'd be looking for guidance - at Moscow, not Kiev.
Why look for a guidance at world's biggest gas station?
This is supreme nonsense!
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Old 10-07-2018, 10:37 AM
 
12,022 posts, read 11,567,188 times
Reputation: 11136
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Alec...
From what I see on my FB, Russians in the Eastern part of Ukraine hate Poroshenko, but they are skeptical about the rest of their politicians too. And that's what makes them to be indifferent to elections - the absence of any viable alternatives, the understanding of it.
That is not to say they like Putin - they don't want anything to do with him, BUT... had Russia had normal government, that's where they'd be looking for guidance - at Moscow, not Kiev.
They're outnumbered in a national referendum. That's why Trump always offers to settle E. Ukraine and Crimea with a national referendum. That's why democracy is often called the tyranny of the majority.

Very balanced piece from the days of the war.

Quote:
When the crisis first began in the fall, American observers tended to gloss over the fact that that a large portion of the political divisions could be roughly explained by (A) where a person was from (East/West) or (B) what language that person spoke in their home. People in the East have not forgotten that those in the West collaborated with the Nazis in what they call "The Great Patriotic War." The Westerners will always remember the vast famines that were inflicted upon them by the Soviet Union 1.
link

Any census after the war is going to colored by the ethnic cleansing since many fled to Russia. The last census in 2010 showed that Russians comprised 20 percent of the total population and about two-thirds of the population in the breakaway regions.
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Old 10-07-2018, 01:33 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,435,844 times
Reputation: 9092
It seems to me that the government institutions/mechanisms and structure is little different from that of Russia. As with many in Eastern Europe. What the big difference seems to be is the quality of the service to the people. Since the fall of the USSR Ukraine has not been served well by it's governments.

I'm also not buying a damn thing about who is who in Ukraine. There's a huge gulf between the western part and the central and eastern portions with the west being the most belligerant/insane. The rest of the Ukrainians simply hold all government in extreme contempt and appear to have totally lost respect for any government in power.
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