Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You clearly are misunderstanding my posts with a typical Russian flair. Nobody was telling them what to do, we were telling them what they don't need to do.Our main job was to lure back the Luftwaffe from Russia and attack its factories while shooting down its planes. Russians had the task of fighting the army since they had no choice, it was in Russia. Britain had to fight off the Axis Navy (reducing the navy had 3 goals: allow Americans to bring and supply its army to Europe, allow allies to supply Russians up north and allow Africa and then Italy to be taken). Italy was important not only because of their troops fighting Russian partisans but also the way we could bomb those oilfields in Romania. This was the general idea of the 2nd Moscow conference, which Stalin was part of, in August of 1942. This goal was more or less accomplished by the time of the Tehran conference 16 months later.
^^Kind of the same thing? To my Russian ears.
You sound like just another American who thinks that they won WWII
You sure had very complicated tactics back then, like all over the world (Africa for God's sake!) and not exactly where you were needed - Leningrad comes to mind.
I think you did a bad "MAIN??? job of luring Luftwaffe from Russia"...
While you were doing your unsuccessful "luring" (don't really know what it means) Russian women (pilots) ages 17-27 !!!
were kicking Luftwaffe's aces arses... https://www.atlasobscura.com/article...fighting-force
Italian troops were the least worries of Russian partisans.
1941 was chaos as you know. 9 air raids on Berlin did nothing but lose the majority of bombers sent with no results because they were mostly at night. Lesson was learned. Once the US was in the war, we told the Soviets to stick with attacking the German army and leave the strategic bombing to us. The Brits were supposed to stop Germany in Africa and attack their navy on all fronts. This was discussed at length during the 2nd Moscow conference (it makes sense doesn't it?). Stalin knew at worst all he had to do was buy time. Bombers were easier to transport and deploy from Britain than army on the ground. 3 million tonnes of bombs, with help of the Norden sight laid waste to German production. Britain and the US lost over 20,000 bombers and 160,000 men doing this (not counting action against Japan).
Chaos no sheet... for Europe, for Britain, for Russia who was not ready. Hell, we had cavalry on our borders with our hero on a horse - Budenniy.
Once again looks like Soviets did a good job "sticking with attacking the German army" all the way to Berlin!
Hey, poor Brits were expected not only to defend their own country but "to fight in Africa too and attack their navy on all fronts"???
When the leader is smart and needs soldiers and laborers for his projects, do you think he will be KNOWINGLY set to destroy 20 million of his people?
Of course not. That's why I've said that people who died as the result of the GREAT TERROR specifically, were not more than circa 600,000. The innocent people that died as the result of it, is what I actually consider to be Stalin's deliberate crime. But millions that died as the result of the collectivization - that was not his intention; that much is clear from his conversation with Churchill. And yet again - the collectivization was unavoidable, since it was an inseparable part of industrialization.
All those imaginable "20 million people" that "Stalin killed" are yet again - a result of pure speculations, based on god knows what. And that's why historians Arch Getty and Robert Conquest found the lower estimates vindicated by the "recently opened archives."
You can look at those archives yourself now;
Apparently you've totally missed the two links I've left in the previous post.
What Hitler ultimately wanted, was the RACIAL MAKEOVER of European continent, and extermination of Jews was only part of it.
Now compare it with Stalin, who was simply preoccupied with security of his state.
I agree with Erasure - 20 millions is overkill. Even 600000 sounds a lot.
The CAS doesn't give any medals back. It just clears athletes from future bans. The key is to spot the trickery in Russian Propaganda... in the article you linked it is here: "Russia is back to the first place in the unofficial 2014 Winter Olympics medal count". I underlined the word in case you missed it.
But many Russian athletes do not go to the Olympics 2018, they are not allowed. The Olympic Committee is ruining lives of people on the basis of insufficient evidence. Dirty politics. But you can extend your propaganda.
One has to take into account when it comes to American lend lease what Russia did in the far east. Japan was forced to maintain more than 300, 000 troops in Manchuria for the entire conflict in the Pacific Theatre. What if America had to face those troops in the Philipines or South East Asia?
In all fairness it about balanced out. Russia was helped immensely by the US bombing campaigne and the material goods. Russian soldiers loved Churchill tanks and US Sherman "Easy 8s" and were thankful for the trucks and spam too. From 1943 onwards Spam fed a lot the Red Army. Many American lives were saved too. You can't even compare the battles in the west with the battles the Red Army fought when it comes to sheer scale.
Credit must be laid where it is due. The Red Army beat the German Wehrmacht into the dirt. They did the heavy lifting and our world would be very different today were it not for them.
You sound like just another American who thinks that they won WWII
You sure had very complicated tactics back then, like all over the world (Africa for God's sake!) and not exactly where you were needed - Leningrad comes to mind.
I think you did a bad "MAIN??? job of luring Luftwaffe from Russia"...
While you were doing your unsuccessful "luring" (don't really know what it means) Russian women (pilots) ages 17-27 !!!
were kicking Luftwaffe's aces arses... https://www.atlasobscura.com/article...fighting-force
Italian troops were the least worries of Russian partisans.
You sound like just another Russia who thinks that they won WWII alone We don't have lies taught to us about which allies contributed in order to feed an inferiority complex. I've watched enough of your shows and seen the outright fabrication.
Let me give it to you straight Ivan, the Luftwaffe lost more aircraft to the western allies than to the Soviets despite the majority of the fighting taking place on the eastern front. That doesn't even count the other Axis nations air forces which were nearly totally destroyed by the western allies...other than Finland's.
Funny you bring up Leningrad without realizing it would have starved without our resupply coming through Murmansk. Its even mentioned at the museum in St. Petersburg so at least its not ignored entirely.
We had an ocean to cross to get to Europe and that meant securing the ocean BEFORE we could field a million man army needed for France. Russia would have lost without our joining the fight. We sent 12 million men to the fight across the world. Of course the Red Army did the most ground fighting, it had the largest army and most of the fighting occurred in the Soviet Union. But air force and navy was beaten by us.
But many Russian athletes do not go to the Olympics 2018, they are not allowed. The Olympic Committee is ruining lives of people on the basis of insufficient evidence. Dirty politics. But you can extend your propaganda.
A lot more than 28 were banned, and are still banned and have their Sochi medals stripped. Its just these 28 were deemed to not have enough evidence beyond strong circumstantial evidence. Good for them, they are a small part of the Russians who were caught cheating.
We had an ocean to cross to get to Europe and that meant securing the ocean BEFORE we could field a million man army needed for France. Russia would have lost without our joining the fight. We sent 12 million men to the fight across the world. Of course the Red Army did the most ground fighting, it had the largest army and most of the fighting occurred in the Soviet Union. But air force and navy was beaten by us.
Very true. A large part of the delays in the second front was due to demands of time and space (geography). The allies had to set up the logistics of making war before they could enter it. The Atlantic was a hazardous place for shipping for much of the war. It took time to adapt. The bombing campaign wreaked a lot of havoc on the German supply chain. Many instances can be found of the Germans having to destroy large numbers of tanks in repair depots in the face of the advancing Russians because of a lack of spare parts. It was not uncommon to have 50% of it's tank force in the east in a degraded condition or non functional due to this lack of support.
I don't think there was much in the way of shenanigans when it came to what needed to be done between the allies.
One has to take into account when it comes to American lend lease what Russia did in the far east. Japan was forced to maintain more than 300, 000 troops in Manchuria for the entire conflict in the Pacific Theatre. What if America had to face those troops in the Philipines or South East Asia?
In all fairness it about balanced out. Russia was helped immensely by the US bombing campaigne and the material goods. Russian soldiers loved Churchill tanks and US Sherman "Easy 8s" and were thankful for the trucks and spam too. From 1943 onwards Spam fed a lot the Red Army. Many American lives were saved too. You can't even compare the battles in the west with the battles the Red Army fought when it comes to sheer scale.
Credit must be laid where it is due. The Red Army beat the German Wehrmacht into the dirt. They did the heavy lifting and our world would be very different today were it not for them.
I agree with you 100%! And, surprisingly you are the first American who thinks so...
My father himself (who became invalid at 18 years old in 1942 right before Stalingrad) told me about things Russian army were receiving from all over the world - knitted wool sweaters, hats, mittens, scarfs, egg powder, spam (that mainly went to officers), trucks. Of course it was a big help and support! And so is bombing - kept Hitler (and Mussolini and Japanese) busy in all directions.
Britain - really, was the only country in Europe, apart from Russia of course that was bleeding and still fighting Germans all the way through WWII.
The rest about 40 ? or so countries (but 8 were actually made it to be neutral) conveniently declared themselves neutral. But, were they really - i.e. Sweden, Norway, Finland?
Sweden: " During the German invasion of the Soviet Union, Sweden allowed the Wehrmacht to use Swedish railways to transport (June–July 1941) the German 163rd Infantry Division along with howitzers, tanks and anti-aircraft weapons and associated ammunition from Norway to Finland. German soldiers traveling on leave between Norway and Germany were allowed passage through Sweden — the so-called permittenttrafik. Iron ore was sold to Germany throughout the war." wiki).
Neutral while their neighbors - people in Leningrad
were starving to death literally. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Leningrad
They say that the only people that survived after the Leningrad siege were those that ate corpses...
I understand that for Finland it was "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" but still how can they watch (while helping Germans) this beautiful city slowly dying during those 2 years 4 months and 5 days of Leningrad siege?
8 neutral countries?? Maybe if you count city states but How did you get to 8? Portugal was stuck without Spanish involvement. Spain was sorta allied with Hitler so there was no reason for them to fight. Switzerland is always neutral and anyway would have been annexed quick (it was more hostage to Germany than anything). So who else? Turkey and Sweden? Yes I can see a case there but Turkey was historically allied with Germany and in no position to declare war. The rest of Europe was conquered by Germany or allied with it.
Finland, um hello the Soviets just attacked Finland the year before so how do you think they would respond, by helping Russia who just invaded, killed many Finns and stole their land?
I agree that Ireland and Sweden took the cowards way out. So did Brazil and many others though.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
job of luring Luftwaffe from Russia"...
