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I was going to get my first starter tank soon and was thinking about a 70-100 gallon tank most likely freshwater with maybe some real plants. Whats the positives and negatives of having a real plant tank vs fake plants.
Also what would be a good combination of fish that can live together. Would angelfish be able to live with some gouramis, they are both semi aggresive i believe. Then adding in some guppies, tetras, glofish...any others?
There are many advantages to a planted tank versus a fake plant tank.
For one it looks more natural, the fish feel at home and finally the real plants absorb wates that the fish produce and help oxygenate the tank by releasing oxygen from photosynthesis.
Yes Angels and Gouramis can be housed together, it just depends on the types of gouramis. Some get to over a foot long.
as for guppies both the angels and Gouramis will eat the guppies when the angela nd gouramis get big enough. I would skip the gouramis altogether because they are from a different biome and thus have slightly different requirements. I would stick to the angels and get some of the larger tetras such as the serpae tetras, the hifin/ skirt tetras, or any of the tetras that don't look like bite size snacks (skip the neon, cardinals etc).
also be careful with fish that eat plants. Silver dollars look beautiful in a planted tank but they will eat plants down to the gravel.
If you are set on gouramis get the smaller ones. Angels are not that aggressive like other members of the cichlid family. But they do get up to about 7 inches and will eat any fish small enough to fit in their mouths.
Rams are another peaceful , colorful cichlid option. Personally I would go with rams over gouramis because they are another S. American fish and they are peaceful.
Places like petsmart dont really carry rams or bigger tetras do they? Also the rule is 1 gallon for every inch of fish right?
Would i be able to put any other life in their like little shrimps or lobsters? How about those sucker fish that eat algae or a catfish
Yes they do. I have seen rams and a variety of tetras at petsmart.
That 1 gallon rule does not work in all situations, and the numbers can be altered in a planted tank as the plants acts as extra filters.
I have shrimp in my planted tank with angels and tetras, they do well. baby plecos won't be too much of a bother, but as they age they eat less and less algae and start developing a taste for plants. Lobsters are just crayfish. I have only met ONE of those that didn't devour plants, and that was because the people in the store was feeding it a stream of dead fish. So lobsters will either eat as many of your fish as they can catch, when they are done with those they will eat your plants
In a planted tank however the algae is competing with the plants for nutrients so algal blooms are less of a problem in a planted tank than in a fake plant tank.
If things are balanced right you will have no need for plecos. If you do a better option would be either the chinese algae eater or the siamese algae eater. I can't remember which is which but one eats only algae the other eats algae and plants.
Do not get snails!!!!!! Especially apple snails. Those will convert a beautifully planted tank with dense growth into a desolate mess in a mere week.
I would advise you to start small (not tank, but on the number of species). Maybe get about 6 angels and about 6 or more each of your favorite tetras. they you may add in some variety.
Be sure to cycle your tank. Real pet stores sell seeded filters that cut down on cycling greatly. set up the tank with water, treat it, start the filter going with the seeded filter material and let it run for a couple of weeks.
you can cycle with a new filter but the time takes longer. You will need to get some inexpensive fish (minnows, feeder fish), thrown them in the tank and let them do their magic before the more expensive fish can be added. Cycling allows beneficial bacteria to grow in the filter medium so that chemical filtration can occur. Before the tank is cycled nitrate spikes may occur which may kill your fish
Thanks for the info so far. What kind of plants are the most unique looking these days. Im also able to get one of those led light hoods that can change colors so at night when its dark it looks cool right, those done affect the fish do they?
Cycling is switching out a percentage of the tank water every week or two?
There are tons of unique looking plants but the lighting requirements vary, and honestly some are hard to keep. some require planting in soil, frequent fertilizing and addition of Carbon dioxide to the tanks. Lighting is also plant specific.
No .Cycling is getting the filter medium activated with beneficial bacteria that prevent the build up of harmful chemicals from decomposing matter in the water. It involves water changes but not that simple.
Here is a summary of the cycle:
Quote:
The cycle starts with the fish releasing waste products into the water. These products produce ammonia, which is very toxic to fish. As the ammonia level in the water increases some new bacteria will begin to grow in the tank. This bacteria will eat the ammonia and the ammonia level will then drop.
The ammonia eating bacteria produce another waste product that releases nitrite into the water. Nitrites are also very toxic to fish. As the nitrite level in water starts to increase another bacteria will then start to grow. This new bacteria will eat the nitrites causing the nitrites to drop.
The nitrite eating bacteria produce their own waste products which give of nitrates. Nitrates are not as toxic to aquarium fish. Even though nitrates are not as harmful they should not be allowed to build up in the tank. Regular partial water changes are needed to keep the nitrates low. Once there are nitrates in the water and the other 2 bacteria levels are remaining close to nothing the Nitrogen Cycle is completed and the tank has establish a biological filter.
The end product of the cycle- nitrates are what plants need to grow healthy, so having plants is a plus there because they use up nitrates and make the water more healthy
Last edited by HtownLove; 03-10-2012 at 07:29 PM..
That's a fantastic size for a first tank! That will be a lot of fun for you. It does take several weeks to cycle a tank, even with plants. Some people want to cycle a tank with no water changes, just with plants only, but you would need over 75% of the tank filled with plants, and it has to be the right type of plants, with high light requirements, etc. etc. Plants are helpful but don't try to rely entirely on them to cycle a tank, which some people do.
You can put 5 or so angels in your new tank, but be aware that angels can be territorial and might fight one another. They can get so aggressive that they will kill, so be cautious, you might need to return one or more if they get picked on. Most gouramis are peaceful, but some, like the blue or opaline can get pretty big and aggressive. I have a male opaline that is real nasty, and I have to keep him separate from most fish. He's currently with a school of red serpae tetras that were also aggressive, none of them would play nice with others, but together they called a truce. Sometimes serpaes can be very nippy, mine would chase my angels fins and I had to separate them. I would use caution with them, you could try at least 8-10 but be aware they might have to go. In addition to larger tetras you could consider cherry barbs, they are an eye-catching red but very peaceful. Other schooling fish would be larger rasboras, or rainbowfish. If you go with a smaller gravel or sand substrate, consider a school of larger cories, too. As for plecos, keep in mind that a common pleco will reach 12" in length. You can get a bristle or brushy nose pleco, they only reach 5" or so in length. I've had mine for years and they don't bother my plants, except for the swords. They'll suck swords into lace. LOL. Just be sure to feed them little bits of sinking algae wafers though, especially in a new tank, because they need more than just whatever fish food flakes fall to the bottom. They love sliced zuccini and cucumbers, but remove them after 12 hours or so or it will foul the water. Be cautious with shrimps, for instance angels will eat the smaller red cherries. Apple snails are fine with some plants, they won't bother the easy-to-grow low-light anubias, java fern, or java moss, but they will indeed shred my water sprite. They don't really keep a tank clean of algae though, they are just fun to watch.
I prefer to buy my fish online, fish from pet stores often have diseases. I've had good luck buying fish from liveaquaria.com and petsolutions.com. When buying new fish you should keep them separated in a small tank (especially if from a pet store that's notorious for diseases) for a few weeks, so you don't introduce the diseases into your main tank. This has happened to me countless times and I have learned this the hard way. But since you are starting at the beginning with just one uncycled tank that's going to be hard for you to do.
I don't personally get fish just to cycle a tank only to get rid of them though, this seems rather cruel to me. And I know I don't want to purchase fish that have been used by someone to cycle their tank, even hardy fish are affected by ammonia and it can shorten their lifespan. But however you decide to add fish to your tank, do it in small numbers gradually. Even adding a few fish will create an ammonia spike in a new tank, and the more fish you add the higher the ammonia. Unless you have a REALLY good, independently-owned pet store nearby, I cringe at the idea of borrowing a seeded filter from a pet store, you might be getting parasites along with the bacteria. Do you know anyone with an aquarium? You'd be better off getting a seeded filter from someone you trust. And just be cautious about buying a bottle of chemicals to "cycle" your tank, it's just a gimmick.
Be sure to get a good liquid water test kit like API. It costs around $30 but lasts years and years, and is more reliable than the strip kits. As your tank cycles you'll need to do partial water changes every few days as the ammonia rises. Once your tank is cycled, you'll just need to do weekly gravel vacs with partial water changes to keep the tank clean. And throw out the one inch of fish per gallon rule, you wouldn't put a 10" oscar in a 10 gallon tank.
Also, research the water requirements of fish before stocking. For instance, some fish need warmer temps than others, some need harder water, etc. You want the whole tank to be compatible.
You are right, common plecos can definitely reach 24" or more, that was an error on my part. They get quote large, I think I've read a minimum of 120 gallons but who knows at that size!
Serpaes do have a bad rep, but occasionally they are fine with angels in a super large tank. Most tetras are peaceful, but serpaes can be an issue. Here is a site that the OP might like to look at that describes fish, their temperaments, and requirements. It does say that serpaes are known fin-nippers.
Serpae Tetra (Hyphessobrycon eques) Profile Compatibility/Temperament: Sometimes peaceful, but known to be aggressive and a fin nipper. Must be kept in a group, minimum 6 but 8+ is more likely to help curb the fish's aggressive (fin-nipping) tendancies. Should never be kept with slow or long-fin fish (guppies, angels, discus, gourami, betta) but only with active species.
Gambusia are also known to be fin nippers. The above site doesn't list gambusia, but seriously fish does. I like to look at that site as well to research fish and their compatability. Western Mosquitofish (Gambusia affinis) - Seriously Fish
To the OP, NEVER trust a pet store for advice, most of the employees aren't trained well and they just want to sell fish. Last year I took the advice of one and bought an upside catfish which I'd heard could be in a community tank. The employee said he'd reach 4" in length. In a month he was about 8" and eating my full-grown fish, I did my own research and learned he was the type to reach a foot or more and was a "meat" eater. I was feeding him huge earthworms every day until I could get the store to take him back, and I had to isolate him, he was super aggressive!
What kind of gouramis do you have? Some types are really aggressive, others are peaceful. My dwarf and pearl gouramis were peaceful in a community tank. Going back to one of my endless links here is liveaquaria for the OP to look at. What I like about this site, is you can look at say, gouramis, and do a search for the peaceful types, it has a box on the right for you to narrow your choices:
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/a...num=1&count=15
I have bristlenose plecos or otos in my many of my tanks, and feed them zuccini/cucumbers/sinking algae wafters and pellets, so the apple snails get a lot of food that way. That will help keep them from nibbling on other plants. I don't know of much of anything that will eat java fern though, about the only fish I've heard to eat that plant is silver dollars and severums. Java fern is popular for that reason as well as being so easy to grow. It's a good plant for a beginner, you just need to tie it on to something with fish line and the roots will attach on their own. As it spreads and grows I sell my new plants. I spend a whole lot of time using all the above links to research, even after 40 years of fishkeeping I am still learning.
You are right, common plecos can definitely reach 24" or more, that was an error on my part. They get quote large, I think I've read a minimum of 120 gallons but who knows at that size!
Serpaes do have a bad rep, but occasionally they are fine with angels in a super large tank. Most tetras are peaceful, but serpaes can be an issue. Here is a site that the OP might like to look at that describes fish, their temperaments, and requirements. It does say that serpaes are known fin-nippers.
Serpae Tetra (Hyphessobrycon eques) Profile Compatibility/Temperament: Sometimes peaceful, but known to be aggressive and a fin nipper. Must be kept in a group, minimum 6 but 8+ is more likely to help curb the fish's aggressive (fin-nipping) tendancies. Should never be kept with slow or long-fin fish (guppies, angels, discus, gourami, betta) but only with active species.
Gambusia are also known to be fin nippers. The above site doesn't list gambusia, but seriously fish does. I like to look at that site as well to research fish and their compatability. Western Mosquitofish (Gambusia affinis) - Seriously Fish
To the OP, NEVER trust a pet store for advice, most of the employees aren't trained well and they just want to sell fish. Last year I took the advice of one and bought an upside catfish which I'd heard could be in a community tank. The employee said he'd reach 4" in length. In a month he was about 8" and eating my full-grown fish, I did my own research and learned he was the type to reach a foot or more and was a "meat" eater. I was feeding him huge earthworms every day until I could get the store to take him back, and I had to isolate him, he was super aggressive!
What kind of gouramis do you have? Some types are really aggressive, others are peaceful. My dwarf and pearl gouramis were peaceful in a community tank. Going back to one of my endless links here is liveaquaria for the OP to look at. What I like about this site, is you can look at say, gouramis, and do a search for the peaceful types, it has a box on the right for you to narrow your choices:
Gouramis: Dwarf Gouramis and other Gourami Fish Species
I have bristlenose plecos or otos in my many of my tanks, and feed them zuccini/cucumbers/sinking algae wafters and pellets, so the apple snails get a lot of food that way. That will help keep them from nibbling on other plants. I don't know of much of anything that will eat java fern though, about the only fish I've heard to eat that plant is silver dollars and severums. Java fern is popular for that reason as well as being so easy to grow. It's a good plant for a beginner, you just need to tie it on to something with fish line and the roots will attach on their own. As it spreads and grows I sell my new plants. I spend a whole lot of time using all the above links to research, even after 40 years of fishkeeping I am still learning.
That might be it then, I kept my serpaes in large groups, because I love seeing 12 or more fish in a school.
I found 120 gallons for a pleco was still small because they pooed massive amounts of poo. also at that size they hardly eat algae so keeping them as algae eaters at that point is useless. Plecos actually ate smaller fish they could catch and often also strip carp (goldfish, koi) by latching unto them and eating their slim layer.
I have had a variety of gouramis and paradise fish. Powder blues, flames, Pearl, kissing, golds. All were feisty. plus the kissing gouramis grow really fast. people don't know this but those cute little pink gouramis end up being giant 12 inchers really quick. I have even seen pictures of Gouramis that are as big as 25 inches. http://www.dumagueteinfo.com/board/a...nt_gourami.jpg
anyway, I am tired of huge fish. Their aquariums are huge and the frequency of required water changes are too time consuming. The only big fish I own now are tilapias. I went to a creek last fall to catch gambusia for my Turtle tank and came up with a range of fish including tilapias. Caught Blugills, Grass carp, fat head minnows, Mollies, MOllie-gambusia hibreeds, and of course tilapias and gambusia. for some reason the turtles never ate the tiny tilapias (they were about an inch long at the time) and now they are about 5-8 inches long. At first I didn't even feed them because they were food, not pets, but for some reason they kept on growing and growing. I also have plecos in the turtle tank. Got them last fall from the same creek. they were about two inches at the time now one is about 7 inches the other is about 8 inches. My huge plecos I gave away when I moved a couple of years ago because they were too messy.
I agree about the petstores, they are not to be trusted. some kid in his teens was trying to tell me whats what based on the little info tabs attached to the tanks. almost all of them was incorrect. they said that the common goldfish only got up to about 7 inches. Mine got to over 12 inches in under two years. well tell that to the whoppers I had to transfer to ponds. They also mislabel south american and african cichlids.
always do your research before you go to the store.
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