[TANaples]

From what my parents and grandmother, who lived through the Depression, told me the stock market crashed and the banks failed. People lost not only their jobs, but their entire life savings as well. This is why the FDIC was established. The Federal government insured people's money in banks. Hasn't this happened? At least with a few smaller banks. We have already bailed out brokerage houses. The Federal government seems to bailing out quite a number of financial institutions and now industry as well.

This doesn't seem like any other recession I have lived through in over half a centry. I am not saying the D word yet. At least there are no soup kitchens, 12 year olds aren't quitting school to help support the family, or tying rope around their shoes to keep them on their feet because they are falling apart. This is what my Dad told me it was like for him during the Depression.

I hope it never comes to that ever again in this country.

[Keeper]

I have to agree with TaNaples this is nothing like anything I have ever seen even in the 80s when S&L's failed it wasn't as bad as it is now.

I too remember the stories from my Grandmother about the Great Depression. We may not have soup kitchens per se but a lot of ppl are going to food pantries asking for food.

I lost half of my 401K, thank goodness I don't have to use it to live right now. Very scarey

[Roadrunner69]

That is what gets me going, we lose our 401K and we are bailing out the auto industry while union people are sitting on fat retirement plans. Let the dang unions bail the industry out thats why we pay 20,000 for a car thats not worth crap now a days unskilled workers getting 28.00 an hour to tighten a screw with full benefit package. (GIVE ME A BREAK) Thats why they are so worried about losing their jobs all those unskilled workers don't have skills to bring to the table when looking for a regular job. Let the unions fix the mess they created, but then again it would probably be a bigger mess. I see they are going to bring up consessions, what no coffee break every half hour. PLEEEASE

[DailyJournalist]

Originally Posted by Roadrunner69

That is what gets me going, we lose our 401K and we are bailing out the auto industry while union people are sitting on fat retirement plans. Let the dang unions bail the industry out thats why we pay 20,000 for a car thats not worth crap now a days unskilled workers getting 28.00 an hour to tighten a screw with full benefit package. (GIVE ME A BREAK) Thats why they are so worried about losing their jobs all those unskilled workers don't have skills to bring to the table when looking for a regular job. Let the unions fix the mess they created, but then again it would probably be a bigger mess. I see they are going to bring up consessions, what no coffee break every half hour. PLEEEASE

Unions are not the problem, the CEO's are the ones that have mismanaged the companies. All the unions want is fair work conditions and pay, something every American should want!

[Roadrunner69]

Unions are not needed in todays world maybe back in the 40's but not now. OSHA seems to work just fine for the rest of us but I don't have a payed retirement I have to save for mine and get about half as much for doing twice as much. I'm just saying they are over payed and now I (we) have to save they're jobs. Don't get me wrong, I was union when I was twenty years old and the union saved my job because my idea of a work week was 4 days making that kind of money but they couldn't fire me. The jod bored me so the shop foremen would let me read prints and set up machines(he would inspect after) and he was amazed what I could do at 20 yrs old. Long story short I hated it and left Buffalo after the big blizzard and haved lived in Florida ever since.

[floridaorbust]

Originally Posted by Roadrunner69

Unions are not needed in todays world maybe back in the 40's but not now. OSHA seems to work just fine for the rest of us but I don't have a payed retirement I have to save for mine and get about half as much for doing twice as much. I'm just saying they are over payed and now I (we) have to save they're jobs. Don't get me wrong, I was union when I was twenty years old and the union saved my job because my idea of a work week was 4 days making that kind of money but they couldn't fire me. The jod bored me so the shop foremen would let me read prints and set up machines(he would inspect after) and he was amazed what I could do at 20 yrs old. Long story short I hated it and left Buffalo after the big blizzard and haved lived in Florida ever since.

I so agree with you Roadrunner. They are way overpaid. As are the CEO's. I to had a union job in my early 20's. they to saved my job and butt But our Gov. is afraid to touch them. Thats where a bunch of the votes came from for our new Prez.

[sunrico90]

The liability is everyone's responsibility. Many of us are paying for what we neglected to see years back..

CEO getting huge bonuses

Unions that worked to maximized members benefits without realizing the long term damage to the cost of the end item/products

financial organizations that gave loans to members that can't afford to pay back

Investors that believe the financial counselor talk

This was the baseline or metric that was used by many business. Even our own political leaders gained dividends while WE lost more than money...

The fix is not giving money to every large company, is to develop new ways to capitalized our investments and reduce the footprint of some companies (yes some jobs will be terminated) but create or support other industries that can generate long term jobs.

Remember to always read the fine print on everything that you sign....
Thanks,

[TANaples]

To relate back to OP and Florida, I work for a school district. I had the choice of either a State Pension or a 403K, not both. In short, I am a TA and don't make very much money, so I chose the state pension. What will happen to that?

I can retire fully vested in 4 and a half more years. Will it still be there? Hell, because of the state cut backs, will I even be working for the schools by thenn? I don't really know what will happen. In either case, pension or 401/403K if you have 10, 20, 30 years before you need to collect, you will probably be fine. What happens to those of us almost ready to retire in say 5 years? I really don't know. I read in the paper today that Crist said the state penion fund is now $100 billion in the red because of the market downturn. How long will it take to rebound? That is the so called $64 million dollar question.

[Shores9]

From the start of this thread I have spent some time looking at issues that might impact Florida more so than other areas of the country. Unfortunately there are several problems that exist in Florida that are above and beyond national problems.

Florida’s taxation system has some significant flaws. All is fine when [economic] times are good but in a downturn our narrow tax base - primarily sales tax – suffers. This has shown itself several times over the last few decades. In addition property tax is overly burdensome to households and businesses.

Florida’s education (overall) is not competitive with the country and as a result (along with misaligned taxation) we are not effectively competing for industry. A good example is auto manufacturing – several other southern states have attracted auto manufacturing companies and are being successful in competing for other industries as well. One interesting point is Florida spends near the bottom or at the bottom of the country on per pupil dollars but a look into the breakout of the numbers shows that the dollars spent in areas of administration and infrastructure rank in the middle to near the top of what other states spend. Meaning that we spend the least amount of dollars per pupil [instruction] but spend a greater proportion on administrative costs and school buildings. We also spend a greater percentage of school dollars on bussing and school lunches.

Demographics – With higher population of elderly and poor we are particularly susceptible to economic downturns as social programs to these (and others) balloon. This year’s Medicaid rolls skyrocketed by 100K alone and the additional costs pushed the anticipated budget by more than an additional $146 Million. By next year the state is forecasting to have to spend $346 Million more than expected.

State legislature – It seems Florida has never had a “Long Tem Vision”. It has always relied on its natural beauty and sunshine. It does not appear that this will change anytime soon as our representatives limited by 2 year terms with an 8 year max limit do not focus on the long view but favor more popular issues that can yield results today. They have 2 years to get elected again for 2 years – a process that can be repeated 4 times before they are forced out so why should they care about what happens 10 or 20 years from now.

Conclusion – We all have plenty to worry about!! Most of us are really aren’t sure whether we will have a job or enough secure income to live on tomorrow. This applies across the country but for those in Florida (and to be fair a few other states like CA) it is especially scary. Here, if you don’t already have a job and or secure retirement funds, a secure place to live etc you will not likely find help from the state. The only thing the state can do for any of us is take more money to fill the gaps in their budget until the economy gets going again and tourists spend money here again or until they come up with a long term vision on making Florida more than a retirement/vacation state.


Thanks to all who have contributed – I really love the state and hope things improve. Wish all a Happy Holidays

Shores9

[Tungsten_Udder]

Originally Posted by Keeper

I have to agree with TaNaples this is nothing like anything I have ever seen even in the 80s when S&L's failed it wasn't as bad as it is now.

I too remember the stories from my Grandmother about the Great Depression. We may not have soup kitchens per se but a lot of ppl are going to food pantries asking for food.

I lost half of my 401K, thank goodness I don't have to use it to live right now. Very scarey

Can't say I'm worried about it at this point, BUT, I don't really have much of value to anyone but myself. I've never really had much of value to anyone but myself. I never even had credit until the last year or so. But I've always managed to survive just fine . . . and I'm very adaptable, too.

Actually, prior to the current situation, I was starting to get a bit worried about what's going to happen to me down the road, as I've got absolutely nothing for any kind of retirement (and I'm already middle aged), but with other folks losing their caches as well, maybe I don't have to worry about that too much either.

I look at it this way: what are the worst things that could happen to me?

Well, I could die. But then I don't have to worry about anything.

Or, I could be homeless. Then I've got a good excuse to travel around all the time, like I've always wanted to do anyway.

I could become handicapped. But then I can get government assistance and have other folks help take care of me.

Or, I could be imprisoned for something. But then I don't have to worry about shelter, food, etc.

Looks like a win-win situation any way I slice it.