Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Sorry, but I think Wichita, KS has much more in common culturally, politically, and architecturally with Oklahoma City, OK than Chicago, IL. I also feel that Fort Wayne, IN has more in common with Kalamazoo MI than Des Moines, IA. The Great Lakes and Midwest Core regions are quite different culturally and politically compared to all the Great Plains subregions.
The last time I checked, Iowa wasn't considered part of the Great Plains region, nor was it considered a great plains subregion. And so what if Fort Wayne, Indiana has more in common with Michigan? It's closer to Michigan. We are comparing the eastern Midwest to the western Midwest and the central Midwest and trying to say that because certain differences between each exist, it should be further broken up. Wichita, KS, the last time I checked, didn't have the Southern influence OKC had, and at any rate is in far southern Kansas. The Northeast isn't the same everywhere, neither is the Mid-Atlantic. We are going to have to agree to disagree here...you believe a Great Plains exists that should be separated from the Midwest and South...as far as the Great Plains region goes, there is a substantial difference between Texas and North Dakota, and the Southern and Northern Plains. The Northern Plains have strong Midwestern influence, the Southern Plains strong Southern influence. I choose to group the Northern Plains as the "Western Midwest" because Texas and Oklahoma are decidedly southern states by the people that live there, and Kansas, Nebraska, South Dakota, and North Dakota have more in common with Minnesota, Iowa, and Missouri than with Wyoming, Colorado, and Montana. Iowa doesn't even meet the criteria for a great plains state. It has clusters of medium-sized cities throughout the state, the soil is among the most naturally productive in the world, no irrigation required...the state is green with corn and soybeans, and there is lots of humidity and moisture to keep the region green. Same thing for much of Minnesota. You don't get anything like this in the true Great Plains states. In each region, you will get differences between certain parts of them, but overall these differences are not enough to overwhelm the similarities.
Not culturally (OK City/Tulsa share much more in common culturally with Little Rock, Fort Worth, Amarillo, Memphis, Nashville)....and I think that is part of the main point that AJ is trying to make (I agree with him)....that cultural norms should determine regional affiliation, not necessarily topography.
Not culturally (OK City/Tulsa share much more in common culturally with Little Rock, Fort Worth, Amarillo, Memphis, Nashville)....and I think that is part of the main point that AJ is trying to make (I agree with him)....that cultural norms should determine regional affiliation, not necessarily topography.
EXACTLY, Bass&Catfish2008. The only thing I don't like about the Census Bureau's definition is Maryland and Delaware being in the south. Being in the Bos-Wash corridor, and being strongly culturally influenced by this area, these states IMO belong in the Mid-Atlantic region with New Jersey. But that's another topic altogether.
The last time I checked, Iowa wasn't considered part of the Great Plains region, nor was it considered a great plains subregion.
I have always considered Iowa to be in the Midwest core.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajf131
And so what if Fort Wayne, Indiana has more in common with Michigan? It's closer to Michigan.
Well, I used to live in "Michiana" so northern Indiana has quite a bit in common with Michigan and the entire Great Lakes manufacturing belt. This area is also much more forested. Much of the rest of Indiana is solidly in the corn belt with the exception of southern Indiana.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajf131
Wichita, KS, the last time I checked, didn't have the Southern influence OKC had.
Well, Wichita has an overarching Bible Belt culture that spills over into politics as well as economic development. Wichita has just as much social conservatism as Oklahoma City. Widespread social conservatism is a much more pravailing theme in the southern Great Plains compared to the Great Lakes or even parts of the Midwest core.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajf131:9743308
The Northeast isn't the same everywhere, neither is the Mid-Atlantic. We are going to have to agree to disagree here...you believe a Great Plains exists that should be separated from the Midwest and South...as far as the Great Plains region goes, there is a substantial difference between Texas and North Dakota, and the Southern and Northern Plains. The Northern Plains have strong Midwestern influence, the Southern Plains strong Southern influence. I choose to group the Northern Plains as the "Western Midwest" because Texas and Oklahoma are decidedly southern states by the people that live there, and Kansas, Nebraska, South Dakota, and North Dakota have more in common with Minnesota, Iowa, and Missouri than with Wyoming, Colorado, and Montana.
The Great Plains is much different poltically, culturally, and climatically compared with the Midwest core. The biggest welfare recipients in the country are commodity crop farmers in the High Plains subregion. This profligate water use is unsustainable so I doubt Midwest core type crops will be grown there 50+ years from now after the Ogallala Aquifer is depleted enough that costs for drilling deeper wells will be financially unprofitable.
I also disagree that Kansas has much in common at all with Minnesota. I just don't see it at all. It is a very distinct cultural clash in my opinion. I can back this up considering I lived over 20+ years in the KC metro area as well as rural counties. I have also visitied large chunks of MN; both MPLS, southern tier ag counties, the northwoods, and Brainerd Lakes region.
I have always considered Iowa to be in the Midwest core.
Well, I used to live in "Michiana" so northern Indiana has quite a bit in common with Michigan and the entire Great Lakes manufacturing belt. This area is also much more forested. Much of the rest of Indiana is solidly in the corn belt with the exception of southern Indiana.
Well, Wichita has an overarching Bible Belt culture that spills over into politics as well as economic development. Wichita has just as much social conservatism as Oklahoma City. Widespread social conservatism is a much more pravailing theme in the southern Great Plains compared to the Great Lakes or even parts of the Midwest core.
The Great Plains is much different poltically, culturally, and climatically compared with the Midwest core. The biggest welfare recipients in the country are commodity crop farmers in the High Plains subregion. This profligate water use is unsustainable so I doubt Midwest core type crops will be grown there 50+ years from now after the Ogallala Aquifer is depleted enough that costs for drilling deeper wells will be financially unprofitable.
I also disagree that Kansas has much in common at all with Minnesota. I just don't see it at all. It is a very distinct cultural clash in my opinion. I can back this up considering I lived over 20+ years in the KC metro area as well as rural counties. I have also visitied large chunks of MN; both MPLS, southern tier ag counties, the northwoods, and Brainerd Lakes region.
I probably should have been more specific when I talked about comparisons. No, Kansas I agree is not like Minnesota, at least, extremely like it. It is however, more like Iowa, Nebraska, and Missouri, than like Oklahoma or Colorado. But this is again, another debate altogether. If nothing else, Kansas is more like Nebraska, than it is like Oklahoma. I personally think the Great Plains are more conservative than the states of the Midwest because of how rural they are, but that's just. Changes in latitudes can cause changes in everything. You bring up many valid points which I agree with and respect, some we just don't see eye-to-eye on I guess. So I hope we can just respectfully agree to disagree here.
I probably should have been more specific when I talked about comparisons. No, Kansas I agree is not like Minnesota, at least, extremely like it. It is however, more like Iowa, Nebraska, and Missouri, than like Oklahoma or Colorado. But this is again, another debate altogether. If nothing else, Kansas is more like Nebraska, than it is like Oklahoma. I personally think the Great Plains are more conservative than the states of the Midwest because of how rural they are, but that's just. Changes in latitudes can cause changes in everything. You bring up many valid points which I agree with and respect, some we just don't see eye-to-eye on I guess. So I hope we can just respectfully agree to disagree here.
That's fine
I really do like to analyze the small details.
Have a good evening.
Let me get this straight...you think that Iowa, Minnesota, Michigan, and Wisconsin are more like New York, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, and Maine than the Great Plains states? That is not even close to the truth. Anyone who has been to these states and regions should clearly be able to see the differences. Topographically and culturally, the Upper Midwest states resemble the great plains states more. A big thing to point out is that while Great Plains states have to be irrigated to produce crops and are drier, the rural parts of these states differ only in that wheat is grown more than corn and soybeans in the plains, and there are basicaly no trees and the topography is less green and the states as a whole are more rural. Denver has virtually nothing culturally, architecturally, or historically Midwestern about it. Oklahoma City has clear cultural and dialectual and architectural influence from Dallas and Little Rock and Tulsa. Kansas City has culture that is far more similar to Chicago, St. Louis, and Indianapolis than to Denver. And Omaha is definitely more similar to Kansas City and Des Moines and Chicago than it is to Denver. It's very close to Des Moines and right across the river from Iowa. I don't know where your opinions come from, but if you're doing drugs, I'd recommend getting clean, and if you're not doing drugs, I'd recommend actually traveling to and visiting these places first rather than randomly shouting out your opinion.
I agree with about 90% of this. Some of the homes in Denver look like the homes in the midwest, e.g. the bungalows, but I think that was a popular style in many places in the 1920s. I have seen pictures of bungalows in Portland. Denver started with a gold rush. The agriculture out here is ranching, not farming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater
I would say that Rhinelander, WI does not have anything in common with Mankato, MN. I know this to be absolutely true based on my travels.
Well, yeah! Rhinelander is a resort community, Mankato is a college town. There is probably more difference between Madison, WI and Rhinelander than there is between Madison and Mankato. I've traveled around the coutryside in Minn and WI, and I don't see much difference. You wouldn't know you'd left one state and gone into the other unless there was a sign.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater
I have always considered Iowa to be in the Midwest core.
Well, I used to live in "Michiana" so northern Indiana has quite a bit in common with Michigan and the entire Great Lakes manufacturing belt. This area is also much more forested. Much of the rest of Indiana is solidly in the corn belt with the exception of southern Indiana.
Well, Wichita has an overarching Bible Belt culture that spills over into politics as well as economic development. Wichita has just as much social conservatism as Oklahoma City. Widespread social conservatism is a much more pravailing theme in the southern Great Plains compared to the Great Lakes or even parts of the Midwest core.
The Great Plains is much different poltically, culturally, and climatically compared with the Midwest core. The biggest welfare recipients in the country are commodity crop farmers in the High Plains subregion. This profligate water use is unsustainable so I doubt Midwest core type crops will be grown there 50+ years from now after the Ogallala Aquifer is depleted enough that costs for drilling deeper wells will be financially unprofitable.
I also disagree that Kansas has much in common at all with Minnesota. I just don't see it at all. It is a very distinct cultural clash in my opinion. I can back this up considering I lived over 20+ years in the KC metro area as well as rural counties. I have also visitied large chunks of MN; both MPLS, southern tier ag counties, the northwoods, and Brainerd Lakes region.
Well, I don't know about that. I lived in Champaign Co, Illinois, and I learned that the farmers of central Illinios got all kinds of crop supports, "PIK" (payment in kind) money for not growing crops, etc. It's all agribusiness. Ohio is a little different b/c of topography and proximity to Pennsyvania, but the Ohians consider themselves midwesterners, and row-cropping starts in western Ohio.
Culturally, the whole area is more family-oriented with generations of families living in the same area, getting together every Sunday for dinner, etc. There's a lot more church-going in the entire midwest than there is in Denver.
Well, yeah! Rhinelander is a resort community, Mankato is a college town. There is probably more difference between Madison, WI and Rhinelander than there is between Madison and Mankato. I've traveled around the coutryside in Minn and WI, and I don't see much difference. You wouldn't know you'd left one state and gone into the other unless there was a sign.
I think the biggest land cover clash is when you transition out of the northwoods of WI right into the dairy belt just to the south. I think it is one of the starkest contrasts anywhere in the eastern US. Yes, Rhinelander is more of a resort town, but Eagle River and Minocqua hold the candle in that area. I spent a night in Minocqua a few years back and that town definitely has a unique lake oriented culture along with the hundreds of local bars/supper clubs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
Well, I don't know about that. I lived in Champaign Co, Illinois, and I learned that the farmers of central Illinios got all kinds of crop supports, "PIK" (payment in kind) money for not growing crops, etc. It's all agribusiness. Ohio is a little different b/c of topography and proximity to Pennsyvania, but the Ohians consider themselves midwesterners, and row-cropping starts in western Ohio.
Culturally, the whole area is more family-oriented with generations of families living in the same area, getting together every Sunday for dinner, etc. There's a lot more church-going in the entire midwest than there is in Denver.
The High Plains region definitely gets its fair share of agricultural subsidies to grow unsustainable corn in a semiarid region. It is mainly grown to feed cattle in the massive industrialized agriculture complexes in places like Dodge City, Garden City, Liberal, Lexington, NE, etc. I eat some meat, but these giant complexes make me physically ill.
This is another reason why I buy a lot of locally grown and produced foods.
People dislike Midwest because it is pretentious and pompous. Even your claim is exaggerated as you are not the only region with access to Great Lakes and not the only region with access to fresh water.
You boast being down to earth yet tend to make absurd pompous claims. People also tend to think about Midwest as synonymous with boring, anal, rural, small minded and opinionated mindset.
Which State are you in?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
