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If anything Rustbelt cities get too much credit for how urban they are. St Louis, Cleveland, Milwaukee, get treated like it’s still 1965. Like Cleveland’s RTA ridership in 2019 was 1/3rd of what it was in 1979. Because the metro area sprawled out to hell. It’s rail system is basically a zombie rail system.
West coast cities like San Diego and LA are underrated. LA gets derided as a big suburb but it’s transit commute share is basically right under Philly’s on the list of cities.
I think the things with Rust Belt cities is that they still have a higher population density than many other cities, even with declines in population and they still have areas of high density within them due to their older built form/environment. Keep in mind that Rust Belt cities likely are the same in land area roughly 100 years ago as they are now. So, that likely has something to do with it.
If anything Rustbelt cities get too much credit for how urban they are. St Louis, Cleveland, Milwaukee, get treated like it’s still 1965. Like Cleveland’s RTA ridership in 2019 was 1/3rd of what it was in 1979. Because the metro area sprawled out to hell. It’s rail system is basically a zombie rail system.
West coast cities like San Diego and LA are underrated. LA gets derided as a big suburb but it’s transit commute share is basically right under Philly’s on the list of cities.
The other bits of that is that these were really major cities at the time when highway funding and urban renewal funding was available in very large amounts and these ripped out a lot of urban parts of the area or somewhat isolated parts of it and then those areas spread further decay. That they're as urban as they are now is more of a testament to how incredibly dense and urban they used to be because the population drops and structural changes were immense.
I'd also point out that Milwaukee doesn't quite belong in that category to nearly the same extent.
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I'm also going to throw in Kingston, NY as a candidate for a very urban city given its small size/metro and lack of a major research university.
I think the things with Rust Belt cities is that they still have a higher population density than many other cities, even with declines in population and they still have areas of high density within them due to their older built form/environment. Keep in mind that Rust Belt cities likely are the same in land area roughly 100 years ago as they are now. So, that likely has something to do with it.
I think Buffalo just due to the fact it’s density held up are close to 7,000 ppsm (and much of the city over 10,000 ppsm) has quite a bit more of those old time urban neighborhoods largely intact. While there are gaps (notably on the east side) it’s pretty cohesive
A lot of Rust belt cities have a few of neighborhoods pretty well intact. Cheek and has Ohio City, it’s Downtown, Detroit Shoreway. Little Italy,But that encompasses the typical weekend trip to Cleveland. A Guardians Game, the West Side Market, Edgewater Park, Playhouse Sq. The Cleveland Museum of Art is in those better urban places. Meaning peoples impressions of Cleveland are based on a small slice of the city. And even a deviation of 5 blocks south of Euclid is very different.
I think you need ~7500 ppsm on old urban form to have that short of corner store/corner pub kind of most of what I need is a 15 minute walk kind of neighborhood. The majority of St Louis, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Detroit etc doesn’t have that anymore. All of them have pockets or swaths of what. Used to be, but it’s not consistent. Most of Buffalo does. Providence does, Syracuse mostly does, Milwaukee largely does.
For a smaller city, Albany NY offers neighborhoods with nice, older architecture and row homes. It is an older city and in turn, much of it was designed before the automobile. It similar for some other cities in that area.
Not necessarily underrated in these forums, but a shoutout to the Twin Cities. Surprisingly dense for the midwest, 2 downtowns, lightrail/commuter train/BRT/amazing buses with shoulder use capability to bypass traffic and signal right of way at certain lights.
Downtown Minneapolis has 9 miles of skyway connecting all of downtown via the indoors. If you haven't experienced it, picture a busy airport concourse running through the second level of most buildings. St. Paul has almost 3 miles of it. Light rail connects both downtowns, the Mall of America, and one of the US's busiest airports. All 5 of the major US professional sports teams are represented (most with new/er stadiums).
I think out of the top 15 Philly is definitely underrated. I always heard negative things about Philly and even when I told people I was visiting there, people generally responded with "What is there to do in Philly besides eat a cheesesteak". It definitely has a negative reputation and even though it deserves some harsh criticism me and my wife enjoyed our visit.
I also think St. Louis would be a underrated city for it's urbanity. I will say though Philly is a city I wouldn't mind visiting again because of it's vibrant urbanity but St. Louis on the other hand was urban but it lacked the vibrancy Philly had and for that I wouldn't be in a rush to go back.
Among the biggest cities, yes. I don't think anyone will deny that Philadelphia is a large, dense, urban city, but it often (and oddly) gets the short end of the stick, almost always from people who never visited.
I've taken several friends to Philadelphia for the first time over the years, and most were blown away by the city, the food (not just cheesesteaks), the extensive history, architecture, energy, etc. It used to annoy me because one shouldn't have to visit Philadelphia to know that it's full of offerings, no less than DC, Boston, Chicago, San Fran, etc. But now I use it as a chance to show off my hometown.
One quibble with your post, all major cities deserve criticism, no city is void of QOL issues. And Philadelphia has made good reputational strides in recent years, I just hope the lingering issues from Covid and high homicide rate don't detract from the positives.
That being said, in the big picture, I don't think Philadelphia is anywhere near the most underrated urban city.
I think Buffalo just due to the fact it’s density held up are close to 7,000 ppsm (and much of the city over 10,000 ppsm) has quite a bit more of those old time urban neighborhoods largely intact. While there are gaps (notably on the east side) it’s pretty cohesive
A lot of Rust belt cities have a few of neighborhoods pretty well intact. Cheek and has Ohio City, it’s Downtown, Detroit Shoreway. Little Italy,But that encompasses the typical weekend trip to Cleveland. A Guardians Game, the West Side Market, Edgewater Park, Playhouse Sq. The Cleveland Museum of Art is in those better urban places. Meaning peoples impressions of Cleveland are based on a small slice of the city. And even a deviation of 5 blocks south of Euclid is very different.
I think you need ~7500 ppsm on old urban form to have that short of corner store/corner pub kind of most of what I need is a 15 minute walk kind of neighborhood. The majority of St Louis, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Detroit etc doesn’t have that anymore. All of them have pockets or swaths of what. Used to be, but it’s not consistent. Most of Buffalo does. Providence does, Syracuse mostly does, Milwaukee largely does.
I see what you are saying. With Detroit, it is mainly parts of Downtown and Midtown with higher densities. Then, select areas like West Village, parts of Southwest Detroit, Warrendale, parts of the Rosedale Park area and around Livernois Avenue(University District, etc.) as well. While not a part of the city, but surrounded by it, Hamtramck also has higher population density. So, these places are more spread out across the city.
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