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I remember that as well, and I think it may have had to do with the specific streetview you chose.
No debate from me that sections of Kensington are very challenged, clearly surpassing anything in Mattapan. But many don't realize that full scale of the neighborhood. Even though there are parts that are socially troubled, it generally has solid bones and seeing gentrification in southern end of the neighborhood with $800K+ homes:
Even in the most dysfunctional areas (Kensington & Allegheny is around the "ground zero") you're seeing noticeable improvement in street conditions from 5 years ago, but you'd never get that sense from social media. Still far from an urban utopia, but much more stabilized:
At the end of the day, at the street level, I think most perceptions come down to tight urban intensity of Philly's rowhomes. That will always come off as "heavier," and perhaps less pleasant to people for which that vernacular is foreign (the lack of a tree canopy in many areas certainly doesn't help) to people from cities like Boston, which feels much "lighter" and downright bucolic in its outer neighborhoods. It's just a very different feel and urban form, but to each their own.
While we, of course, all know of the Colonial, rowhouse, narrow streets side of Philly, the City is way underrated for its amazing set-asides and interweaving of parks and natural areas. Fairmount Park is the largest muni-park in the world, and the city, even in its residential areas, has an amazing nurturing and respect for trees and plants. Driving through, parking and walking along the various park areas along the Wissahickon Creek through NW Philly, one often has the feeling they're out in some rural remote area, not existing within America's 6th largest city with 1.5M residents... Just driving through several residential streets, esp in my areas of Mt. Airy and Chestnut Hill, is a breathtaking experience -- not just for the large & beautiful and oft historic old brick, stone & stucco homes, but for the flowering gardens and trees and old gated and stoned-in front yards of lovely creeping ivy and all variety of colorful plants and bushes -- tree canopied streets are the norm in these areas.
Then there's Valley Green -- with its historic, working 18th Century Inn -- inside the Wissahickon Creek natural area, where there's horseback riding along the creek and even an old-time covered bridge.
And there are even a few work farms inside the City -- including the totally unique Saul Agricultural High School in Roxborough. Even with its several problems -- and what American city doesn't have them -- Philadelphia is a really unique and underrated major metropolis.
That’s an interesting take considering central Baltimore is in an objectively better state than central Cleveland, St. Louis or Detroit by a significant margin to add.
The only difference is Baltimore didn’t nuke its old housing stock into concrete grass prairies a as a result still retains the vast majority of its historic built form which is where the whole “scars on display” comes from. The problem that arose from that is a lot of people still live in those disinvested areas and the city got the associated crime that follows that.
I agree, downtown/central Baltimore hardly "stinks", but is very historic and interesting... As for the Cleveland, St. Louis and Detroit comparisons (where I'd say Cleveland is considerably stronger these days than the other 2 in terms of its downtown), you have to remember downtown Baltimore, like Philly, Boston, NYC and even smaller cities, has Colonial roots meaning its downtown is interwoven with residential neighborhoods unlike younger, Industrial-era cities like Detroit and Cleveland, which gives downtown Baltimore a major leg-up in terms of walkability and mixed-uses.
And there are even a few work farms inside the City -- including the totally unique Saul Agricultural High School in Roxborough. Even with its several problems -- and what American city doesn't have them -- Philadelphia is a really unique and underrated major metropolis.
Excellent overview, and yes, no one could ever accuse the city of lacking uniqueness.
The greenest parts of the city truly are fantastic, and I hope to see that replicated all over the city one day (especially given the horticultural history in the region). It would literally transform the look and feel of so many areas in immensely positive ways.
Yes, physically more intact but it’s far less nice. The area around Lexington Market for example is far far more sketchy than the area around West Side Market. The Flats is much nicer than the area around the port Discovery despite the fact Cleveland is more pockmarked by parking lots. You go 1 block off the inner harbor and everything is boarded up on a Sat afternoon it’s nothing like any other major American city
I wouldn’t call a sea of parking lots mixed with derelict warehouses as “nice” either. This is before we touch on that fact that in the core the vast majority of them are in the process of getting mid-rehab or being demo’s for construction as we speak, Cleveland’s parking lots are not.
One block off the inner harbor puts you to the Convention Center (west), Downtown (north), Federal Hill (south) and Little Italy (east)… none of which are even remotely in a “boarded up” state.
You’re severely undershooting how large Baltimore’s core actually is and where it’s “dystopia” actually starts and stops.
Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4
The area around Penn Station blows away any mid sized Midwestern neighborhoods but if you’re in town for an O’s game that’s quite a ways a way. If you’re in town for a Gaurdians/Cards game the immediate areas are much much nicer.
Penn Station is almost 1.5 miles from the Inner Harbor and separated by 3 distinct neighborhoods (Midtown, Mt. Vernon & Downtown). Federal Hill, Fells Point & Harbor East/Point are all geographically closer to Camden Yards than Penn Station is so if your including Penn (Station North), include those.
I wouldn’t call a sea of parking lots mixed with derelict warehouses a “nice” either. This is before we touch on that fact that in the core the vast majority of them are in the process of getting mid-rehab or being demo’s for construction as we speak, Cleveland’s parking lots are not.
One block off the inner harbor puts you to the Convention Center (west), Downtown (north), Federal Hill (south) and Little Italy (east)… none of which are even remotely in a “boarded up” state.
You’re severely undershooting how large Baltimore’s core actually is and where it’s “dystopia” actually starts and stops.
Penn Station is almost 1.5 miles from Inner Harbor and separated by 3 distinct neighborhoods (Midtown, Mt. Vernon & Downtown)
Federal Hill, Fells & Harbor East/Point are geographically closer to Camden Yards
than Penn Station is so if your including Penn (Station North), include those.
Downtown Baltimore between Pratt, Centre, Gay and Greene Street is by a long shot the most rundown Downtown I’ve ever been too.
Downtown Baltimore between Pratt, Centre, Gay and Greene Street is by a long shot the most rundown Downtown I’ve ever been too.
Well for starters downtown Baltimores official boundaries are Pratt, President, Orlean’s and Howard Street.
Downtown Baltimore is by no means exciting but rundown it is not, especially in the context of some of the cities you’re comparing it to because it’s always historically been mixed use and the leg up that brings to CBD stability.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjbradleynyc
I would agree with Philadelphia. Great bones, awesome transit, somewhat "affordable" compared to NYC, Boston, DC. Just some rough areas hold it back a bit.
As for smaller cities, I'd say a rust belt city like Milwaukee. Rarely on the national scene, but great bones, affordable, lively and super close to Chicago.
There is nothing underrated about Philly's urbanity, if that's how I take it the OP is asking. Philadelphia's entrenched in top 6 level urbanity in the US for good.
Baltimore is the big overlook by too many. It is still a top 8 urban bones city in the US. People like to lump it in with the tier of cities like Cleveland, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Cincinnati etc., but Baltimore is more urban and bigger than all of them, even still to this day. I feel like it's not even that much of a notch down from Philly honestly, even though on paper it is, but Baltimore still has a lot of traits about it that separate it from Midwest cities, and smaller cities north of it in the NE.
I guess people are reading the question different than I am?
Does “quality urban neighborhoods” mean very urban neighborhoods or nice Burbank neighborhoods.
For the Former Philly and Baltimore are probably underrated. For the latter only Baltimore is underrated.
I think people come away with an unfairly negative view of Baltimore because its downtown is unpleasant not because it’s not urban. People on here seem to not understand those are two distinct scales.
Well for starters downtown Baltimores official boundaries are Pratt, President, Orlean’s and Howard Street.
Downtown Baltimore is by no means exciting but rundown it is not, especially in the context of some of the cities you’re comparing it to because it’s always historically been mixed use and the leg up that brings to CBD stability.
Don’t let personal bias cloud objective facts.
Downtown Baltimore is mostly a pit- I mean- it can be really bad. Its totally devoid of clothign retaill and light on restaurants. Heavy on abandonment. When my Brother drove across Mulberry Street he was shocked and in awe at the level of abandonment (He lives in Harlem). but there are some really nice areas mostly further north of Fayette and east of Howard Street The area near the Lyric Theater and Cathedral Street and some spots are nice.
Downtown Baltimore is mostly a pit- I mean- it can be really bad. Its totally devoid of clothign retaill and light on restaurants. Heavy on abandonment. When my Brother drove across Mulberry Street he was shocked and in awe at the level of abandonment (He lives in Harlem). but there are some really nice areas mostly further north of Fayette and east of Howard Street The area near the Lyric Theater and Cathedral Street and some spots are nice.
All I am trying to say is Downtown Cleveland, Philly or Pittsburgh or Cincinnati are top 3 neighborhoods in their city. Downtown Detroit is far and away Detroits Best neighborhood. Downtown Baltimore? 11th maybe?
Most visitors see Downtown 1st. And grade cities based on that. As a result Baltimore gets appraised as significantly worse off than Cleveland or St Louis when it’s really not.
So I actually think Baltimore is underrated cause it’s Downtown really doesn’t put the cities best foot forward unlike most other cities
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