Would the world be better off or worse without religion? (health care, desecrate)

[EA]

Belief does not impact reality.
For example, I believe I am incredibly sexy. This belief has no impact on my meager looks.

[11thHour]

It would be much better off without organized religion. So much conflict has its roots in religious ideology. Also, for the most part, highly religious areas tend to de-emphasize education, advancement, and progress, and society suffers for it.

[vmaxnc]

Originally Posted by drunkwithwords

I think a lot of people need to believe in something in order to be good. My father said it perfectly (this was the beginning of atheism for me): "I believe in God just in case something happens." This is verbatim. He doesn't believe in God for any other reason than the potential of going into heaven. That's why he is (as he sees it) "good."

That is definitely debatable, but people are bad with or without the influence of religion. Either way, people will be killed, raped, hurt, etc.

I know people like this. I ask them "how can you believe in god to hedge your bets, and not think he wouldn't know you don't really believe?". If one believes all that goes along with faith, one would know he is omniscient. Seems like a silly position to me.

I skipped most of the posts, but here's my position, redundant as it may be. Religion cannot be rescinded now, because it's based on faith in something that can't be disproven. If, from the beginning, people had chosen to figure out why things are as they are, rather than assigning anything they couldn't understand to a god, I think we'd be much better off. We'd be dealing with facts, and not in ignorance and fear.

Due to many experiences throughout my life, I have a negative view of religion. More people have been murdered in the name of it than for any other reason. It has been used to control and rob from the masses since the beginning of time. Science has been stymied in many ways because of it. The hypocrisy of many so-called believers is stunning.

Suggesting there is no god is a fool's errand. I've never understood why anyone would waste time trying to argue that. But I don't need any supposed god to show me the way. I'm responsible for myself and what I do. I take credit for my successes, and blame for the failures. What I don't understand I either trust to those who supposedly do (scientists, doctors) or I'm willing to wait for a satisfactory explanation. My morals and ethics are at least to the level of anyone who claims to believe, if not higher, because I've reasoned them out, rather than blindly and ignorantly adhering to what someone wrote in a book.

I seldom get into religion discussions because they all come down to faith vs fact, and you can't get past faith. So I keep my thoughts to myself. Except for here.

[texdav]

Well certainly the US would likely be a empire after WWI and WWII. It would have done much as Russia did and Europe after their wars. I don't think many appreciate the diffences ni Europeans and US on empire building thru war. It came to a head after WWI and was responsible for not get involved earlier in WWII. No European power gave up empire until forced to do so by not being able to control.US would have a empire now after those two wars without belief difference of those who fled Europes empire oppression.

[NHartphotog]

Originally Posted by BeantownJoe

...That being said, organized religions have been a mixed bag. They often place an intermediary between indivudals and God. They are often used for political purposes to control people and secure power and wealth. And they are used to justify wars.

On the other hand, they do provide people with purpose, meaning, and community. They can also foster kindness and compassion towards others.

In my book, anytime religion divides people it fails. If it unites us all it succeeds.

The power of religion to unite is a function of its power to divide. There can be no "us" without a "them"--no "in" group without the "out" group. Religion can NEVER "unite us all"--even if we all had the same religion--because differences inevitably develop and soon serve to define the new subgroupings.

Human beings simply have an instinctive, gene-based loyalty to the "in" group, because people with that trait were more successful than those without it. In the past, nations united against their neighbors and went to war: their internal cohesiveness gave them incredible power (think how small Nazi Germany nearly took over all of Europe and part of Asia). Now, nations wage war economically, and each national leader is supposed to represent the interests of his/her citizenry in negotiations and trade with other nations. And on this stage, it could not be more obvious that leaders of very cohesive nations (like China) are FAR more effective in benefitting their own citizenry than leaders who see their own nations as just part of the "world community."

Religions ALWAYS divide groups, at multiple levels. Even in the tiny group of Amish in America, there are huge differences between levels of strictness from one church group to the next, classified as "sects" (the least strict are the "Beachy Amish," while the most strict are the "Swartzentruber Amish"). Every Amish person can immediately identify another Amish person's church group just by their clothing and buggy decoration level, and every Amish family wants its children to marry within the sect, and hopefully within the very group that attends church together. The power of the in-group is so strong that the Amish have not died out (as predicted by sociologists many decades ago), but have retained enough people willing to sacrifice all the conveniences and luxuries of the modern world to actually grow.

Only one thing could unite humankind: an enemy that is against all of us. Say, an alien race that comes across the stars to attack us. For that we could be united on a large scale, although nothing would change in the way we live our lives. There would still be the "in" group we want to be a part of, and the "out" group who drive us crazy with their outrageous ideas and beliefs.

It is interesting to note that religions rarely, if ever, unite people who are at different levels on the socioeconomic scale. Churches have very specific demigraphics that they serve, and it isn't just about money. For instance, the majority of Roman Catholics are poor or working class (with a few exceptions), just like majority of those attending African American services. But for the Roman Catholic, attending Church is a burden and sacrifice--while for an African American, it will probably be fun and exciting to attend services. You won't find many poor whites attending predominantly African American services on a regular basis.

[EA]

Originally Posted by texdav

Well certainly the US would likely be a empire after WWI and WWII. It would have done much as Russia did and Europe after their wars. I don't think many appreciate the diffences ni Europeans and US on empire building thru war. It came to a head after WWI and was responsible for not get involved earlier in WWII. No European power gave up empire until forced to do so by not being able to control.US would have a empire now after those two wars without belief difference of those who fled Europes empire oppression.

I'm not sure why people are such short term thinkers. Humans have existed for 200,000~ years.

Religion is somewhere between 50,000~ and 12,000~ years old

That is a huge swath of time. The lack of religion would likely have had such a profound impact humans may not even exist to have ww1 let alone ii.
They could have evolved more quickly or differently. They could have progressed so fast they raped the earth of it's resources and died off. They even could have progressed to the point where they could travel through space and are living in another galaxy. Hell, they could even be stuck in harmonious hunter gatherer stage.

[geos]

Originally Posted by daylux

God has been methodically removed from the consciousness of the population in the United States for 40 years. Is America better or worse?

When God is completely removed from the U.S., it collapses, what happens to the rest of the world?

What do you suppose made America so prosperous in the first place, if not Judeo-Christian God consciousness?

These are just questions.

What made America prosperous was European Judeo-Christians butchering, slaughtering, raping and pillaging the natives and stealing their resources in the name of Jesus. So much for your religious morality. Praaaaaise Jaaaaasus!

[geos]

Originally Posted by Yn0hTnA

Yes, there may be a few bad events which just so happen to involve religion as a scapegoat, but overwhelmingly, religion is shown to have united people of all kinds, and promotes peace, rather than violence. When Typhoon Haiyan struck the Philippines, the island nation turned to religion, not away from it. When Martin Luther King was leading in the Civil Rights cause, he called for more Christianity, not less. In both instances, problems were resolved peacefully without chaos, and destruction.

All of this could be accomplished without lies, fairy tales and superstition. It's also a great example of delusional religious thinking. We need to worship this god who did nothing to prevent this horrible tragedy and beg her (or him or it) not to do it again. Wow! If that isn't nuts I don't know what is.

Originally Posted by Yn0hTnA

As for the circumcision accident, it is just that, an accident. Circumcision is actually a very healthy practice.

It's just an extra income source for doctors who concoct studies "proving" it's necessity.

Originally Posted by Yn0hTnA

Atheist countries also tend to have communistic, or authoritarian regimes. Such regimes are the cause of the lack of crime, not the Atheism. And as such regimes strengthen, they actually become dangerous. Stalin's Atheist regime was one of the most oppressive and destructive in history.

As was Mao's China and Kim's N. Korea. Then you have the barbaric Muslim theocracies in the middle east. It has more to do with humanity's barbaric nature than religion. But at least Christians aren't burning women for being witches or heretics who claim the the Sun doesn't revolve around the earth. You can dance around it all you want; bottom line: religion is a source of ignorance, fairy tales, lies, superstition and mindless rituals.

[hifijohn]

I believe its impossible to separate humans from religion,just like it is impossible to separate us from creating music.atheists have for decades said if only there wasnt any religion, we would be better of, but look at the soviet union they got rid of religion and were they any better???

[EA]

Communism is a religion just as much as any other. They did not get rid of religion, they just started a new one and spread it the same way the early christians did, by force.