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You said religion wasn't the problem. The sentence immediately following that statement said religion caused the problem through it's intolerance. Therefore religion is the problem. Just because you break it down to try and pass it off as something else doesn't mean it's not the religion.
Religion is derived from books. In those books are very detailed instructions on how to be bigoted, sexist, and hate anyone who doesn't hold your specific view of religion. I can pull the verses from the Torah, Quran, and Bible if need be.
NO.
Man is the problem. Men's interpretation of religion is the issue. Too many pick and choose what they "like" or "dont like" about their religions and then use it as an excuse to be intolerant of someone else.
The issue is not in being religious, but in interpreting any religious text LITERALLY.. and not taking from it the underlying message.. thereby missing the point.
That's just one way religion isn't the issue.
The other is in NOT respecting that other religions exists. It is fine to practice your own beliefs within your life, but humans forcing their own beliefs on others is the true issue.
AGain.. i refer to the example of someone that is suicidal. You may wonder; well why, suicide is not the answer. But ultimately, if that person commits suicide they harm themselves (and , of course their immediate loved ones).. .. . Then you have the person that will commit suicide and kill others in the process. It's not that the person is suicidal that is the issue (although its sad, and hopefully they seek help) but that they are inflicting that "death" on to someone else. It's the only analogy I could think of for how I think of religion in this context.
Man is the problem. Men's interpretation of religion is the issue. Too many pick and choose what they "like" or "dont like" about their religions and then use it as an excuse to be intolerant of someone else.
The issue is not in being religious, but in interpreting any religious text LITERALLY.. and not taking from it the underlying message.. thereby missing the point.
That's just one way religion isn't the issue.
The other is in NOT respecting that other religions exists. It is fine to practice your own beliefs within your life, but humans forcing their own beliefs on others is the true issue.
AGain.. i refer to the example of someone that is suicidal. You may wonder; well why, suicide is not the answer. But ultimately, if that person commits suicide they harm themselves (and , of course their immediate loved ones).. .. . Then you have the person that will commit suicide and kill others in the process. It's not that the person is suicidal that is the issue (although its sad, and hopefully they seek help) but that they are inflicting that "death" on to someone else. It's the only analogy I could think of for how I think of religion in this context.
You're right about man being the problem in so much that man invented religion, and it reflects both his virtues and vices.
Man invented religion.
On what are you basing your claim that the bible is allegorical and not literal?
Are you well versed enough to make that determination on the Quran or Torah?
A lot of adherents and scholars would disagree with you.
Man invented religion.
On what are you basing your claim that the bible is allegorical and not literal?
Are you well versed enough to make that determination on the Quran or Torah?
A lot of adherents and scholars would disagree with you.
I don't care much what scholars say about religions and the bible. I am not someone that is particularly fond of religion. I consider myself spiritual. My beliefs came from searching within myself to determine whether somethning felt right or not with regard to religion. Personally I feel that in some ways each religion is right,but in many ways they are also wrong focused on one thing and not seeing the bigger picture.
I seek my own truth, but mine does not have to be the same as yours and vice versa. But we should all respect that
Religion was invented so that the educated few could control the ignorant many, and they are still doing it today. I don't think that there is any doubt that the world would be a far more tolerant place if religion ceased to exist.
Man is the problem. Men's interpretation of religion is the issue. Too many pick and choose what they "like" or "dont like" about their religions and then use it as an excuse to be intolerant of someone else.
The issue is not in being religious, but in interpreting any religious text LITERALLY.. and not taking from it the underlying message.. thereby missing the point.
Those two paragraphs are in conflict with each other. First you say that people shouldn't pick and choose what to like in religion, but then you say religious texts shouldn't be taken literally anyway.
So pick one. Either all of the text should be taken at face value, or none of it should be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by albion
Religion was invented so that the educated few could control the ignorant many, and they are still doing it today. I don't think that there is any doubt that the world would be a far more tolerant place if religion ceased to exist.
It can't cease, because it's based on faith, an illogical concept to begin with. You can tell everyone that "Today, religion no longer exists" but that will not change their beliefs and all the actions that go along with them.
Those two paragraphs are in conflict with each other. First you say that people shouldn't pick and choose what to like in religion, but then you say religious texts shouldn't be taken literally anyway.
So pick one. Either all of the text should be taken at face value, or none of it should be.
It can't cease, because it's based on faith, an illogical concept to begin with. You can tell everyone that "Today, religion no longer exists" but that will not change their beliefs and all the actions that go along with them.
HOw is that conflicting? I'm simply stating what people do. TAKE it literally.. but ONLY the parts they "want" to take literally. But say that in the end, the bible shouldn't be taken literally. THE MESSAGE the Bible gives, however, is what is important.. NOT the details of the stories in it..... This is true with ANY religious text..
I'm not Jewish, but one thing I have learned through knowing some very religious Jews, is that their religion is constantly exploring the Torah and applying it to modern day life... its about interpretation NOT literal. Ironically a friend once said that many of my beliefs are taught in the Torah and what he finds amazing is that I have reached that "truth" not by reading or studying the Torah, but instinctually.. or , as he put it, organically.
because I don't think that I require any set of religious dogma to tell me that rape, murder, theft, and dishonesty are immoral.
what are we really talking about here? gay stuff?
You say you don't, but the lack of restriction and solidness of the secular rule means that eventually, such things can actually become acceptable. Basically, religion ensures that people know what is right and what is wrong from now, all the way to the distant future, but with Atheism, the lack of objectivity means that the society can theoretically change to a point where things like rape, murder, theft, and dishonesty become acceptable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linson
furthermore, I think that the reason most atheists believe the world would be better without religion is because of the way that religion divides people. it gives people a justification to hate and feel superior to others. "everyone but me and people that believe in the same superstition are going to burn forever...and meanwhile, they're also savages and abominations..."
Actually, the texts of all the religious doctrines call for unity, peace, and kindness, not for division. Some people may be tempted to adopt a hateful mentality... but many others don't adopt such mentality, for they see the true meaning of the texts... unity, peace and kindness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linson
and equally important if not more so, is the way religion is perceived to hold back the advancement of civilization. the key to our future is in the scientific, which is at odds with the religious. if half the people on the planet believe in the religious rather than the scientific, that does not bode well for our civilization. science (or common sense) might tell us that we live on a planet of finite resources and 7 billion people is too much. religion might tell us, if you're going to get your carrot wet, you'd best be making a baby. and don't you dare use a contraceptive, sinner.
Contrary to Atheist belief, religion does not hold back scientific progress at all. In fact, religion and science go hand and hand; many of the things proven by science, such as a round Earth, the speed of light, the planets, the finite resources you mentioned, etc, were all first mentioned in the religious texts.
God is the creator of the Universe, and it was Him who bestowed us with the ability to reason, and think logically. The true purpose of science is for discovery, and to explore the universe God created. You can't disprove God using an ability given to you by him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linson
and then there is the Puritan slant to some of our laws. like how in some places you cant buy a bottle of wine on Sunday before a certain time. is marijuana really any worse than alcohol for our society? and is paying a prostitute for sex any more immoral than paying someone to mow your lawn? if so, why? because the s.s.s...sex?
And this part of your post is a clear example of the faultiness in the secular doctrine, especially the part in bold. Such an unrestricted secular mindset reduces the objectiveness of rules, causing you to lower your standards and complain about limits such as "no wine on Sunday before a certain time." What's wrong with setting such limits? You're actually comparing having sex with a prostitute to having someone mow the lawn? Let's put it this way; which one spreads the HIV?
Religion ensures that bad things remain bad, while good things remain good, and calls for people to elevate their moral standards to the fullest, unlike Atheism, which can cause such solidity to dissolve, allowing people to theoretically accept vile acts into the societal norm. You Atheists are so mistaken; religion doesn't tell you to make a baby every time you get your carrot wet; it tells you to set limits on the act of getting your carrot wet.
Fact? it's so ironic that people make an argument based on supposed facts, when it's exactly the existence of those facts which are the basis for the discussion in the first place.
You might as well have said "because god".
More crimes have been committed in the name of religion than for any other reason. Is that the changing moral order you speak of?
Religion is often used as a scapegoat when discussing the motivation of many atrocious acts in history; it still doesn't change the fact that the texts call for peace, unity, and kindness. When Dr. King was leading the Civil Rights movement with peace, he called for more religion, not less.
Religion ensures that vile acts stay vile, while good acts stay good, from the present to the distant future. The rules of Atheism lack solidity, so if such a belief becomes common place in society, the moral order can theoretically change to a point that vile acts may become acceptable in the social norm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vmaxnc
Medicine in particular was held back for centuries because of the supposed violation of god's work.
In truth, religion encourages science, for science is the act of discovering, and exploring properties of the great universe God created for us humans.
You say you don't, but the lack of restriction and solidness of the secular rule means that eventually, such things can actually become acceptable. Basically, religion ensures that people know what is right and what is wrong from now, all the way to the distant future, but with Atheism, the lack of objectivity means that the society can theoretically change to a point where things like rape, murder, theft, and dishonesty become acceptable.
Actually, the texts of all the religious doctrines call for unity, peace, and kindness, not for division. Some people may be tempted to adopt a hateful mentality... but many others don't adopt such mentality, for they see the true meaning of the texts... unity, peace and kindness.
Contrary to Atheist belief, religion does not hold back scientific progress at all. In fact, religion and science go hand and hand; many of the things proven by science, such as a round Earth, the speed of light, the planets, the finite resources you mentioned, etc, were all first mentioned in the religious texts.
God is the creator of the Universe, and it was Him who bestowed us with the ability to reason, and think logically. The true purpose of science is for discovery, and to explore the universe God created. You can't disprove God using an ability given to you by him.
And this part of your post is a clear example of the faultiness in the secular doctrine, especially the part in bold. Such an unrestricted secular mindset reduces the objectiveness of rules, causing you to lower your standards and complain about limits such as "no wine on Sunday before a certain time." What's wrong with setting such limits? You're actually comparing having sex with a prostitute to having someone mow the lawn? Let's put it this way; which one spreads the HIV?
Religion ensures that bad things remain bad, while good things remain good, and calls for people to elevate their moral standards to the fullest, unlike Atheism, which can cause such solidity to dissolve, allowing people to theoretically accept vile acts into the societal norm. You Atheists are so mistaken; religion doesn't tell you to make a baby every time you get your carrot wet; it tells you to set limits on the act of getting your carrot wet.
Religion doesn't help that much with right and wrong. For the amount of supposedly "religious" people in the world, there sure is a lot of wrong going on. I can't think of any of my non-religious friends who are not well educated and moral. The religious on the other hand... Toss up. I'd say 70/30 I think the problem might be that they are so easily forgiven. Maybe you should hold back on that and threaten them with eternal damnation after a single major offense or a half dozen minor ones...
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? Let's put it this way; which one spreads the HIV?
