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a person doesnt necesarily need to fully integrate , I think they only need to learn the laws and know enough to communicate
keeping their culture is very important, I wouldnt want sombody forcing me to be a Christian or celebrate Christmas because it's part of American culture
I agree that when you move to a country you should learn the language and obey the laws of that country. But forcing people to integrate into a society on a cultural level is ridiculous. Why should I be forced to speak English in a public space just because you don't speak French or Spanish? Why is my conversation relevant to you at all? Why shouldn't I be able to open a restaurant selling my own cuisine, or open a shop selling goods from my native country?
Also, assuming that everyone who moves to America is fleeing some third world hellhole is ignorant at best and downright racist at worst. Not every immigrant to America is a refugee and many of us come from countries where things "work" just fine, just like how the millions of American citizens living abroad aren't refugees either. So to say that we should be like you because where we come from is somehow inferior is asinine.
I don't need to ditch my language, culture and identity to be a good citizen and good neighbour. Hell, I know alot of foreigners who are doing more for this country in terms of creating jobs and paying taxes than many Americans themselves. You lot have high school dropouts, drug dealers, school shootings and cops killing unarmed people in the street and you're worried about Ahmed speaking Arabic to his kids on the Subway. Ridiculous.
I agree that when you move to a country you should learn the language and obey the laws of that country. But forcing people to integrate into a society on a cultural level is ridiculous. Why should I be forced to speak English in a public space just because you don't speak French or Spanish? Why is my conversation relevant to you at all? Why shouldn't I be able to open a restaurant selling my own cuisine, or open a shop selling goods from my native country?
Also, assuming that everyone who moves to America is fleeing some third world hellhole is ignorant at best and downright racist at worst. Not every immigrant to America is a refugee and many of us come from countries where things "work" just fine, just like how the millions of American citizens living abroad aren't refugees either. So to say that we should be like you because where we come from is somehow inferior is asinine.
I don't need to ditch my language, culture and identity to be a good citizen and good neighbour. Hell, I know alot of foreigners who are doing more for this country in terms of creating jobs and paying taxes than many Americans themselves. You lot have high school dropouts, drug dealers, school shootings and cops killing unarmed people in the street and you're worried about Ahmed speaking Arabic to his kids on the Subway. Ridiculous.
Most immigrants who come here aren't expats. They are poor Latin Americans who in their own words are fleeing gang violence and poverty. If you walk around speaking another language that most people can't understand, it will breed contempt.
No one is saying you need to give up your culture or religion completely, but you should moderate it to fit into established norms of the host country. My parents didn't ditch the language, I speak it fluently but they didn't want be Italians who lived in America, they wanted to be American.
You don't have to become a wannabe wasp, but if you want to stay here your identity should be American. This is America, where Americans live. American culture is a set of standards and values.
If it was better where you came from, why are you here? That isn't directed at some expatriate working for an international bank because that is a tiny minority of immigrants.
Are you saying Italian immigrants started behaving like Americans who have been here for generations from the day they get off the plane or ship?
I'm saying that they tried to be American and you can become American, my parents didn't come in the early wave they came in the 50s (my dad) and 60s..they are thoroughly American because they tried to be.
a person doesnt necesarily need to fully integrate , I think they only need to learn the laws and know enough to communicate
keeping their culture is very important, I wouldnt want sombody forcing me to be a Christian or celebrate Christmas because it's part of American culture
people have the right to preserve their culture
Did anyone suggest that, no? But there are certain things that are universal amongst Americans. If you are saying you don't know what they are then observe the behavior of rich whites, and then of poor blacks. Very different cultures but they have some shared attributes, those attributes are what makes an American an American.
If you asked the vast majority of Mexicans immigrants "why are you here?" What do you think they would say?
IMO, first answer would be something like "freedom"
I don't doubt that.
Freedom to do what, exactly? Freedom of speech? Not likely, to most average people who aren't political dissidents that is not a make or break factor. Freedom of religion? I doubt Mexico is persecuting it's almost completely catholic population.
It's two things, freedom from danger..or what we call "safety", and freedom to make money and improve their standing.
Why is America safer than Mexico? Why are there more economic opportunities in America. There is nothing special about this land, and if there was Mexico would feel it too because it shares the North American landmass with us. Why does America have more economic opportunity than Mexico? Again, it ain't the dirt.
San Diego and Tijuana are right next to each other, closer than Manhattan and Staten Island to each other. One is one of the safest cities, with a great economy. I have never heard someone say that SD is not a nice place to live. Tijuana is by all accounts a hell hole, the only good things universally agreed upon about Tijuana are cheap dental care and quickie divorces. It's the kind of place where there are 12 year old street walkers and cops and gangsters play on the same team.
So what's the difference? One place works, one place doesn't. Again it ain't the dirt. You might say SD has more rich people, but why does it have more rich people? You could say it's because of better laws, but why are the laws better? Are they actually better laws, or are the laws just better enforced?
The only difference is culture, one consistently works, one consistently doesn't. Logic dictates that if I'm failing and you're succeeding, I should emulate you and see similar success.
People are going to think I am singling out Hispanics, I'm not.
Let's talk about Muslims, everyone has a right to practice their faith. Islam necessitates that women cover their hair, that's all the Quran says. Sikh men and married Orthodox Jewish women do it too.
However the full face veil is not a religious thing. It's a cultural thing from the Arabian Peninsula. While covering your hair is fine, I do not believe that covering your whole face is acceptable. For the same reason that walking around the mall in a ski mask is not acceptable. You could be anyone, a man could put on that outfit and use it to get into a women's locker room, or rob a bank without being identified. It's a safety hazard.
I cannot stop staring when I see people wearing black cloth from head to toe except for little eye holes - very much like the ghost costume I made from a sheet as a child. I assume that these really weird men come from a strange country where they are completely ashamed of how they look. I can only hope that these men get the psychological help they need to feel more comfortable with their bodies so they can walk amongst us without wearing their black ghost costume.
Most immigrants who come here aren't expats. They are poor Latin Americans who in their own words are fleeing gang violence and poverty. If you walk around speaking another language that most people can't understand, it will breed contempt.
No one is saying you need to give up your culture or religion completely, but you should moderate it to fit into established norms of the host country. My parents didn't ditch the language, I speak it fluently but they didn't want be Italians who lived in America, they wanted to be American.
You don't have to become a wannabe wasp, but if you want to stay here your identity should be American. This is America, where Americans live. American culture is a set of standards and values.
If it was better where you came from, why are you here? That isn't directed at some expatriate working for an international bank because that is a tiny minority of immigrants.
First of all, any country where the general population has a problem with me having a personal conversation with someone else in a language I'm more fluent in is not a country worth living in. Why are you minding other people's business? If the conversation was not meant for you then who cares?
Secondly, not everyone intends to stay here. Many do, but many plan on making enough money to retire and go home to where they were born, and in the mean time they follow the law and pay their taxes. Do they have to shed their identity and become American?
Thirdly, just because your parents saw the United States in a particular light doesn't mean that we all do. Some of us are here precisely because the US intervened in our politics and our economies in such a way that it made life hard for us back home, and we effectively were forced here. Are we supposed to want to become Americans to, when the US is the cause of many of our problems to begin with?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clampdown69
If you asked the vast majority of Mexicans immigrants "why are you here?" What do you think they would say?
IMO, first answer would be something like "freedom"
I don't doubt that.
Freedom to do what, exactly? Freedom of speech? Not likely, to most average people who aren't political dissidents that is not a make or break factor. Freedom of religion? I doubt Mexico is persecuting it's almost completely catholic population.
It's two things, freedom from danger..or what we call "safety", and freedom to make money and improve their standing.
Why is America safer than Mexico? Why are there more economic opportunities in America. There is nothing special about this land, and if there was Mexico would feel it too because it shares the North American landmass with us. Why does America have more economic opportunity than Mexico? Again, it ain't the dirt.
San Diego and Tijuana are right next to each other, closer than Manhattan and Staten Island to each other. One is one of the safest cities, with a great economy. I have never heard someone say that SD is not a nice place to live. Tijuana is by all accounts a hell hole, the only good things universally agreed upon about Tijuana are cheap dental care and quickie divorces. It's the kind of place where there are 12 year old street walkers and cops and gangsters play on the same team.
So what's the difference? One place works, one place doesn't. Again it ain't the dirt. You might say SD has more rich people, but why does it have more rich people? You could say it's because of better laws, but why are the laws better? Are they actually better laws, or are the laws just better enforced?
The only difference is culture, one consistently works, one consistently doesn't. Logic dictates that if I'm failing and you're succeeding, I should emulate you and see similar success.
You're demonstrating a massive misunderstanding of history, economics and geopolitics here to the extent that I don't even know where to start. The differences between the US and Mexico, and the differences between the Developed and Underdeveloped world at large are wayyyyyyy deeper than simple culture. If culture explained all differences than why is Mississippi so poor and New York so wealthy if they both share roughly the same culture? Why is Jamaica poor and the Bahamas rich when they share a similar history and culture? There are MANY factors that go into building a successful society, and culture, while important, isn't the be-all and end all.
Furthermore, simply emulating a culture as a means of becoming successful doesn't always work because you don't always have the same tools and resources at your disposal. You can't tell a country like Mexico or Guatemala to emulate the US when they don't have the same tools to work with.
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