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If my houses' standards of conduct is that you can only wear purple polyester and speak in a British accent, and you move into my home (a roommate for instance) and don't conform to my standards I will ask you to leave and if you don't leave o will behave in a way that makes remaining in my home an emotionally damaging and uncomfortable situation for you to the point where you will wanna leave.
For everyone born in this country, this is home. We set the standards in our home and if you don't abide by it you will be made to feel scorned, condemned and unwelcome.
The country most definitely does not belong to you, nor do you set the standards for anyone to live by. You really must think you are in some way God's gift to the world, the way you come across. How do you think that your standards for life apply to anyone else at all? I hope that you realize well that many of those who as you say, "born in this country" have absolutely nothing in common with you and would despise this crap you are putting forth.
The country most definitely does not belong to you, nor do you set the standards for anyone to live by. You really must think you are in some way God's gift to the world, the way you come across. How do you think that your standards for life apply to anyone else at all? I hope that you realize well that many of those who as you say, "born in this country" have absolutely nothing in common with you and would despise this crap you are putting forth.
This country belongs in part to me because I am a native born son of this land
Yeah, Americans are a diverse group but there is a set of standards that apply across the board from rural iowa to Staten Island ny to lake oswego Oregon to tchula Mississippi. These places are incredibly different in regards to people but they all have some commonalities. Those common traits are American.
If you weren't born here and haven't been naturalized via the standard process (not a government surrender or amnesty as they call it) you are a guest, do not be a bad guest because one day your hosts might return the favor
If my houses' standards of conduct is that you can only wear purple polyester and speak in a British accent, and you move into my home (a roommate for instance) and don't conform to my standards I will ask you to leave and if you don't leave o will behave in a way that makes remaining in my home an emotionally damaging and uncomfortable situation for you to the point where you will wanna leave.
For everyone born in this country, this is home. We set the standards in our home and if you don't abide by it you will be made to feel scorned, condemned and unwelcome.
The problem with that logic is that "Home" consists of 300 million people who may or may not feel differently regarding that subject. There's very little "we" so you telling us immigrants "behave or else" is ridiculous when there's no commonly accepted standard to abide by.
And like someone mentioned earlier, it takes GENERATIONS for a group to assimilate into American society, and this has been the case for the last 400 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clampdown69
This country belongs in part to me because I am a native born son of this land
Yeah, Americans are a diverse group but there is a set of standards that apply across the board from rural iowa to Staten Island ny to lake oswego Oregon to tchula Mississippi. These places are incredibly different in regards to people but they all have some commonalities. Those common traits are American.
If you weren't born here and haven't been naturalized via the standard process (not a government surrender or amnesty as they call it) you are a guest, do not be a bad guest because one day your hosts might return the favor
Even if these commonalities exist, who says that they're rules I have to live by.
BTW, name one of these commonalities. Just curious, since apparently these are things which as an immigrant I should know.
Even if these commonalities exist, who says that they're rules I have to live by.
BTW, name one of these commonalities. Just curious, since apparently these are things which as an immigrant I should know.
They are not legislated rules to live by, but it's called being a decent person and respecting the people of the place you made a choice to live. Americans have no choice but to be here, it's actually quite hard for non-professional westerners to move somewhere unless they are EU citizens whereas people from the 3rd world have tons more options.
You chose to be here yes? No one brought you here on a boat in chains because we stopped doing that quite some time ago. Why did you come here? To get the benefits of being here like a decent job that isn't taxed 70% and access to a wide array of natural settings that this country offers? If you want the benefits without doing anything you should sound like a selfish lazy person...no better than someone who plays crazy to get disability benefits.
Here is some constant commonality for you:
[quote]
European influences came from English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish settlers of colonial America during British rule. British culture, due to colonial ties with Britain that spread the English language, legal system and other cultural inheritances, had a formative influence. Other important influences came from other parts of Europe, especially Germany, France, and Italy.
Original elements also play a strong role, such as Jeffersonian democracy. Thomas Jefferson's Notes on the State of Virginia was perhaps the first influential domestic cultural critique by an American and a reactionary piece to the prevailing European consensus that America's domestic originality was degenerate. Prevalent ideas and ideals that evolved domestically, such as national holidays, uniquely American sports, military tradition, and innovations in the arts and entertainment give a strong sense of national pride among the population as a whole.
American culture includes both conservative and liberal elements, scientific and religious competitiveness, political structures, risk taking and free expression, materialist and moral elements. Despite vast geographic and recent demographic diversity certain consistent ideological principles (e.g. individualism, egalitarianism, and faith in freedom and democracy) remain constant.
They are not legislated rules to live by, but it's called being a decent person and respecting the people of the place you made a choice to live. Americans have no choice but to be here, it's actually quite hard for non-professional westerners to move somewhere unless they are EU citizens whereas people from the 3rd world have tons more options.
You chose to be here yes? No one brought you here on a boat in chains because we stopped doing that quite some time ago. Why did you come here? To get the benefits of being here like a decent job that isn't taxed 70% and access to a wide array of natural settings that this country offers? If you want the benefits without doing anything you should sound like a selfish lazy person...no better than someone who plays crazy to get disability benefits.
You're talking a pile of of stupidness here. In no way do third world people have "more options" than Americans...it's MUCH harder for people from non-developed countries to even get visas to visit, let alone immigrate, and for the most part we just go to wherever the first country we get in or have family/friends.
Furthermore, nobody is saying we don't want to work. In fact, immigrants are UNDERREPRESENTED among people on welfare and OVERREPRESENTED in colleges and universities in the US. The only people dragging down American society are Americans.
[quote]Here is some constant commonality for you:
Quote:
European influences came from English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish settlers of colonial America during British rule. British culture, due to colonial ties with Britain that spread the English language, legal system and other cultural inheritances, had a formative influence. Other important influences came from other parts of Europe, especially Germany, France, and Italy.
Original elements also play a strong role, such as Jeffersonian democracy. Thomas Jefferson's Notes on the State of Virginia was perhaps the first influential domestic cultural critique by an American and a reactionary piece to the prevailing European consensus that America's domestic originality was degenerate. Prevalent ideas and ideals that evolved domestically, such as national holidays, uniquely American sports, military tradition, and innovations in the arts and entertainment give a strong sense of national pride among the population as a whole.
American culture includes both conservative and liberal elements, scientific and religious competitiveness, political structures, risk taking and free expression, materialist and moral elements. Despite vast geographic and recent demographic diversity certain consistent ideological principles (e.g. individualism, egalitarianism, and faith in freedom and democracy) remain constant.
If individualism, egalitarianism and faith in freedom and democracy are all American values then why do you care how other people live their lives if they're not bothering you?
I think integrating is key. You need to respect your host Country that shouldn't mean they should forget their culture but they should be a balance.
Yeah, I think that is right. This is a really a question of balance and making a good faith effort to get along in the new society.
Immigrants need to accept democracy, learn at least basic English, work to support themselves and their family, obey the laws, and have a general acceptance that they voluntarily moved to another nation and not everything will be as it is in their own home. Conversely, I don't see anything wrong with socializing with other immigrants, keeping in touch with relatives back home, speaking you native language around friends and family, eating your native cuisine, practicing your religion, etc.
The general population has a duty to treat everyone the same and show some understanding that people may live lifestyles that are somewhat outside the dominant culture. It isn't a prefect balance, there is somewhat of a trade off between voluntarily self-segregating from the general population and then complaining you are marginalized in society. Particularly, when we know that humans are tribalistic by nature and multi-ethnic societies generally are less stable.
The problem is what exactly does the term "integrating" mean? I've seen people born in this country moving to a new region/state and never assimilating, so it's all relative.
If my houses' standards of conduct is that you can only wear purple polyester and speak in a British accent, and you move into my home (a roommate for instance) and don't conform to my standards I will ask you to leave and if you don't leave o will behave in a way that makes remaining in my home an emotionally damaging and uncomfortable situation for you to the point where you will wanna leave.
For everyone born in this country, this is home. We set the standards in our home and if you don't abide by it you will be made to feel scorned, condemned and unwelcome.
I would bet that you don't have anything against the Amish. After all, they are white and European descended. They have absolutely nothing in common with 99% of Americans. They live their lives according to their values and morals, speak the language they choose, educate their children how they see fit, do not join the military or fight in wars, accept no social benefits from the government and don't vote.
I always resented taking Spanish class, English is the worlds common language these days. Spanish is useless for functioning in all but a small part of the world.
I don't get it, why would you resent learning a new language? Anyway, it's ok if you don't like the language itself and have no desire to learn other languages but calling Spanish useless is just beyond stupid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clampdown69
They are not legislated rules to live by, but it's called being a decent person and respecting the people of the place you made a choice to live. Americans have no choice but to be here, it's actually quite hard for non-professional westerners to move somewhere unless they are EU citizens whereas people from the 3rd world have tons more options.
I think the huge majority of people immigrating to the US are exactly that, decent people and respectful of the place they're living and its peoples. It sounds like you came across a bad apple and are extrapolating as if all immigrants were like that.
Quote:
You chose to be here yes? No one brought you here on a boat in chains because we stopped doing that quite some time ago. Why did you come here? To get the benefits of being here like a decent job that isn't taxed 70% and access to a wide array of natural settings that this country offers? If you want the benefits without doing anything you should sound like a selfish lazy person...no better than someone who plays crazy to get disability benefits.
You're serious? Most immigrants work hard and are not lazy, who are you talking about?
Sounds like you're just spouting some ultra right wing nonsense about how all immigrants are criminals and lazy and on welfare, mooching off of the American tax payer and all that silliness.
Yes, there are bad apples and some are like that, I agree that if you have criminals or leeches of the system from other countries in your country then it is your right to get rid of them, but those are a minority, like lexdiamondz said, immigrants are underrepresented among people on welfare. They are also overrepresented on the creation of new businesses and jobs, all the stuff the right wing is constantly crying about, so you should be happy there are immigrants coming and contributing to the American economy.
I'm an immigrant, I work, I pay all the taxes requested by the country, I obey the laws of the land, I consume goods and services, thus contributing to the economy, I speak and write the language fluently, I try to be polite and a good person in general, I observe the customs of the land as well, I'm in no way involved in any criminal activities... I'm pretty sure the majority of immigrants is just like this, so what does it matter if they happen to address someone in Tibetan or whatever in a private conversation?
For someone talking about individualism, egalitarianism, and faith in freedom and democracy you certainly seem eager to forgo those things when it comes to others.
That's wishful thinking. There has been Mexican immigration to LA since the 30s (there were very few Mexicans in CA when it became part of America. It was a few white spaniard landowners and priests. Most settlements were missions which were inhabited by native Americans.) however there are large swathes of LA where if it were not for street signs you would feel as if you were in Mexico. The problem is that even if one generation Americanizes and moves away they are continually being replaced by new ones...also by the nature of immigration we always get the worst because the people who leave Mexico are the poor and downtrodden peasants not the successful. The rich might come in small numbers but I would say that the vast majority of immigrants are the bottom of the barrel back home. I read an article that the Mexican economy has improved because they have exported a large part of their poor welfare class to the US.
ROTFLMAO. Shovel that manure in front of people who are ignorant of American immigration history, sir, not somebody who actually has studied it. I also had a graduate minor in Latin American history. The California of a handful of Spanish priests running missions with Indio labor was the 18th century. By the middle of the 19th century California had an upper class of landowners who were predominantly but not wholly of European blood and a lot of Mexican mestizos who worked the ranchos and provided services in the towns. Who do you think worked the ranchos of those "few white spaniard landowners"? Their children? Los Indios, who had been held more or less as slaves at the missions, had never been enslaved on the ranchos.
Spanish was the language in California, which is why so many place names are Spanish in origin, and the dominant culture was Mexican.
The vast majority of immigrants to the US have always been "the bottom of the barrel". Most of the immigrants to the Virginia colony in the 17th century were indentured servants, some black, most white. Britain regularly shipped its debtors, criminals, and rebels to its colonies in the 17th and 18th centuries. New Englanders in the 1840s and 1850s shipped timber for shipbuilding to Britain and brought back Irish peasants escaping the famine on the same ships. The Irish were so popular in the mid-1800s that "American" businessmen frequently posted signs reading "No Irish need apply".
How is your bigotry any different from the xenophobia against the Irish? the Italians? the Jews? That's all it is btw: bigotry, prejudice, racism, xenophoba. Congratulations for demonstrating them repeatedly on this thread.
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