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Old 08-04-2017, 01:26 PM
 
57 posts, read 45,977 times
Reputation: 74

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassy Fae View Post
I don't understand what this means either- the toll it is taking on their enzyme supply. Are you suggesting that enzymes are used up in reactions?
No, I'm not suggesting that. I'm talking about possible feedback loops. General knowledge about involved pathways does not mean every patient given Linzess will behave the same way. I'm considering angles.

 
Old 08-04-2017, 01:38 PM
 
57 posts, read 45,977 times
Reputation: 74
One source says epigenetics is not active in humans, another source says it is.

http://www.biologicalpsychiatryjourn...652-6/abstract

https://chd.ucsd.edu/_files/winter2009/Morgan.08.pdf

http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/10.....061903.180014

I happen to be on the side of saying it is.
 
Old 08-04-2017, 01:40 PM
 
1,640 posts, read 794,052 times
Reputation: 813
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissRedThumb View Post
No, I'm not suggesting that. I'm talking about possible feedback loops. General knowledge about involved pathways does not mean every patient given Linzess will behave the same way. I'm considering angles.
What specific feedback loop do you have in mind and what is the specific impact/effect?
 
Old 08-04-2017, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,095 posts, read 41,226,282 times
Reputation: 45085
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissRedThumb View Post
One source says epigenetics is not active in humans, another source says it is.

http://www.biologicalpsychiatryjourn...652-6/abstract

https://chd.ucsd.edu/_files/winter2009/Morgan.08.pdf

http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/10.....061903.180014

I happen to be on the side of saying it is.
The first article studied very small numbers. It does not say that epigenetic changes persist for thousands of years.

The second confirms the article I cited.

The third notes that genetic factors may still play a part in some conditions, not just epigenetic. It is behind a pay wall and I cannot read the entire thing.

None of them address epigenetic changes making cancer "harder to treat."
 
Old 08-04-2017, 02:13 PM
 
57 posts, read 45,977 times
Reputation: 74
Here is one specific possibility...

In order to keep GC-C's effects from going too far, healthy bodies have an independent sensor which monitors activity and regulates undesirable spikes. Linaclotide depends on this to stimulate a controllable response.

http://europepmc.org/articles/PMC3997039

About 20% of Linzess patients report diarrhea. Yes, I'm sure some of them took it wrong or mixed in other products, but 20% is too much to dismiss them all as irresponsible.

https://www.sharecare.com/health/pha...taking-linzess

Anecdotal stories abound regarding hours-long episodes of explosive diarrhea after taking Linzess. Those are difficult to quantify, of course, but they are out there.
 
Old 08-04-2017, 02:22 PM
 
57 posts, read 45,977 times
Reputation: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
The first article studied very small numbers. It does not say that epigenetic changes persist for thousands of years.

The second confirms the article I cited.

The third notes that genetic factors may still play a part in some conditions, not just epigenetic. It is behind a pay wall and I cannot read the entire thing.

None of them address epigenetic changes making cancer "harder to treat."
No one can "say" that epigenetic changes persist for thousands of years, because, again, all we have from thousands of years ago are frozen or mummified remains. This also means we cannot "say" human body chemistry was the same back then. We will probably never know in a conclusive scientific sense either way. I happen to suspect our bodies have changed in regards to cancer.
 
Old 08-04-2017, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,759 posts, read 24,261,465 times
Reputation: 32903
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissRedThumb View Post
Here is one specific possibility...

In order to keep GC-C's effects from going too far, healthy bodies have an independent sensor which monitors activity and regulates undesirable spikes. Linaclotide depends on this to stimulate a controllable response.

Guanylate cyclase-C/cGMP: an emerging pathway in the regulation of visceral pain - Europe PMC Article - Europe PMC

About 20% of Linzess patients report diarrhea. Yes, I'm sure some of them took it wrong or mixed in other products, but 20% is too much to dismiss them all as irresponsible.

https://www.sharecare.com/health/pha...taking-linzess

Anecdotal stories abound regarding hours-long episodes of explosive diarrhea after taking Linzess. Those are difficult to quantify, of course, but they are out there.
And so, as with many drugs, one has to decide if they want to continue to suffer what led to taking Linzess, or whether the diarrhea is worth the cure. Particularly when, with many drugs that have diarrhea as a side effect, that dissipates after your body adjusts. For example, when they first prescribed Lisinopril for my high blood pressure, I had a degree of diarhea for almost exactly a month. But since then it's been a trusted and consistently well-tolerated solution to my blood pressure, with no diarrhea.
 
Old 08-04-2017, 02:26 PM
 
1,640 posts, read 794,052 times
Reputation: 813
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissRedThumb View Post
Here is one specific possibility...

In order to keep GC-C's effects from going too far,
I don't know what this means. GC-Cs do not have any effect on their own. They catalyze reactions.

Quote:
healthy bodies have an independent sensor which monitors activity and regulates undesirable spikes. Linaclotide depends on this to stimulate a controllable response.

Guanylate cyclase-C/cGMP: an emerging pathway in the regulation of visceral pain - Europe PMC Article - Europe PMC
Undesirable spikes of GC-C? The paper in your link makes no mention of this. Will you quote?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissRedThumb View Post
No, I'm not suggesting that. I'm talking about possible feedback loops. General knowledge about involved pathways does not mean every patient given Linzess will behave the same way. I'm considering angles.
What specific feedback loop do you have in mind and what is the specific impact/effect?
 
Old 08-04-2017, 02:36 PM
 
57 posts, read 45,977 times
Reputation: 74
Sigh.

GC-C's existence is for the sole purpose of creating diarrhea. That is what it does. To keep the diarrhea from getting out of control, our bodies have a sensor to regulate the activity. Failure in this feedback means the diarrhea continues apace.

I do not know why this keeps being made so complicated.
 
Old 08-04-2017, 02:39 PM
 
57 posts, read 45,977 times
Reputation: 74
I'm done. I really am. Every word I say is put under a microscope and construed in the worst possible light.

You guys have a good time without me.
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