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So now you give supplement producers your money, same difference, isn't it? If the supplements work for you that's great. This is mostly anecdotal evidence though based on individual cases as opposed to large randomized prospective clinical trials with a sound scientific basis.
NO IT IS NOT....I work on prevention and NOT to take their drugs once the health is declining. I've been giving my money for prevention for over 25 yrs...and now at 79, so thankful I have.
So many here keep crying/singing that anecdotal song, nothing else better than to hear it from someone with the experience and NOT in anything for financial gains. Some here are so stuck on that anecdotal crap.
I'm stuck on NOT believing all the stats and research etc done by those who have no personal clue. And so often backed by pharma interests.
Pharma has done so much over the last couple decades to break down the supplement world and this world is strong and healthy and more and more jumping on it.
I can remember our first health food store in our town and all the yellow banners on empty shelves of vitamins as the pharma world was playing havoc in this world. That is GONE, thank goodness and health food stores are thriving and shelves stocked high with supports for our health.
Sure there is and I am not discounting the supportive effects supplements can have in individual cases. If you look up the "professional" tab in your link you'll see that there have been hardly any studies/trials with human subjects and if so, no more than 50 volunteers. Every paragraph there is says "further studies are required". That does not compare to the extensive clinical trial program every pharmaceutical has to go through to prove its worth.
The grape industry doesn't have billions to advertise and do so many trials as pharma does FOR SURE.
It's rather telling that all grapes today in markets are seedless, where do you think a lot of those seeds now go, into producing grape seed extract and oils and other grape products.
Here is just one site on the wonders of the GRAPE...there is one other one I like a lot and maybe I'll find it.
I've never seen this link but very informative: This site even talks about the grape seeds being used in cancer research and I've said that many times here...that was the main reason I got on it as we were told "it may prevent cancer(s)... and that was 22 yrs ago.
Why do so many resist other's info and FIGHT as best they know how but they just don't know. Lots of ignorance. For someone like myself who has gotten such wonderful results with a supplement, have done a lot of my own research and everything comes up so positive.
Last edited by jaminhealth; 08-05-2017 at 12:18 PM..
Last year I was hospitalized, diagnosed with a-fib and put on Eliquis. Waited five days in telemetry for my heart rate to normalize. Discharged to home and began to have a GI bleed. Returned to the hospital as per doctor's order, had a colonoscopy which determined no active disease (I previously had colon cancer) and the cause was determined to be Eliquis, which was immediately discontinued. The GI doc said he didn't understand why it was still being prescribed.
And yet, there are people who are taking it who are not suffering bleeding. Go figure.
Do I feel a need to sue? To demand payment of any bills because of the side effect? Nah. Neither do I feel the need to warn people who are taking it to watch out for those side effects.
How much was the hospital bill, colonoscopy, lab fees and physician bills to find out it was the Eliquis?
The grape industry doesn't have billions to advertise and do so many trials as pharma does FOR SURE.
It's rather telling that all grapes today in markets are seedless, where do you think a lot of those seeds now go, into producing grape seed extract and oils and other grape products.
.
Um. Those seedless grapes don't have the seeds removed, so they don't go anywhere.
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I don't necessarily think these products should go through the same kinds of clinical trials as new chemical entities. Any more than red wine should to show the benefits of resveratrol. There is a good amount of academic research going on addressing nutrition science. I think the bigger problem is that people are largely uneducated about what it is they are consuming (be from a natural or synthetic source) and how it works. This results in misinformation, degraded communication, scamming, etc.
I think you will probably find "further studies are required" for pretty much everything about any drug (maybe not to the extent for its intended use). I would assume so at least.
Neither do I, but the argument of supplements being equal or superior to pharmaceuticals is pretty presumptuous without providing equal scientific evidence, don't you think? Of course health is an individual choice and everyone should take what he or she thinks is best for him but this crusade against pharmaceutical companies in this thread is ridiculous to say the least. Do what you think is best for you but don't try to portray your ignorance as facts that you shove down other people's throats(not referring to you ).There is no hidden agenda to make people sick, they don't deliberately produce drugs with side effects so they can be treated with another drug.
They want to make money. Boo hoo. So does every other company in the fricking world, including the supplement-makers.
Um. Those seedless grapes don't have the seeds removed, so they don't go anywhere.
Did you read the last link that I answered to Rob. Again I don't get your sentence, so they don't go anywhere...maybe a lot of grapes NOW are genetically modified anyway.
Do you get grapes in Hawaii with seeds? Concords are the only ones I found in years that still have seeds and they are a very short purchase time here in CA. People who grow their own grapes I'd think have seeded grapes.
Neither do I, but the argument of supplements being equal or superior to pharmaceuticals is pretty presumptuous without providing equal scientific evidence, don't you think? Of course health is an individual choice and everyone should take what he or she thinks is best for him but this crusade against pharmaceutical companies in this thread is ridiculous to say the least. Do what you think is best for you but don't try to portray your ignorance as facts that you shove down other people's throats(not referring to you ).There is no hidden agenda to make people sick, they don't deliberately produce drugs with side effects so they can be treated with another drug.
They want to make money. Boo hoo. So does every other company in the fricking world, including the supplement-makers.
Everyone is in business to make a living aka money. In 25 yrs of supps, I've had one side effect with SJW as it raises blood pressure. Got off it pronto. I've had plenty of negative effects from a drug, ER trip with ulcer, a dear family member almost died from drug interactions..long hard story and road for her.
How much was the hospital bill, colonoscopy, lab fees and physician bills to find out it was the Eliquis?
Forty dollars. I'll clarify it for you. Because I was in-house observation, there was no charge to me except for the visit by the GI. It was classed as an Office Visit because I wasn't an in-patient. Forty dollars is my copay for a specialist Office Visit.
I have two friends both very into herbals/supplements and both came down with this afib. My thinking belief is that they were not taking ENOUGH magnesium for heart health. Dr. Sinatra talks about heart health the natural way and mag is big in his info and books.
Both my friends, believe the heart drugs they take now are causing some of the other issues that are
coming up for them...The kaiser docs took my friend off desiccated support for thyroid and slapped her with synthroid/levo and it's shocking as she took desiccated as long as I have. The profits and under table money gift exchanges have got to be sky high.
I don't particularly care what you choose to do to maintain your health but NO doctor can take a patient off "desiccated support" without their consent.
When my doctor/s tell me they are going to add/change a medication, I ask why. I make them tell me the benefits of something new. Just as I did with the Eliquis. I had no reason to believe that it would react negatively until it did. And I knew enough to contact the doctor immediately to resolve the unwanted side effects.
If your friend just did what good little sheepie do, then she isn't advocating for herself.
I'm a big girl and I'm able to decide what it is I want to do without you or anyone else deciding that I don't research or that I just worship at the feet of doctors. 'taint so and while you claim others harass you for your stand on alternative treatment, you do the same to people who don't agree with you.
I find it telling that two friends big into herbals/supplements came down with a-fib. Hmmmm. Is it possible that they would have developed a-fib no matter what they took, if they even took nothing?
Forty dollars. I'll clarify it for you. Because I was in-house observation, there was no charge to me except for the visit by the GI. It was classed as an Office Visit because I wasn't an in-patient. Forty dollars is my copay for a specialist Office Visit.
I'm 81 years old. In my book, spit happens.
I wasn't asking how much your co-pay was. I'm glad they figured it out right away for you and that it didn't cost you much out of pocket.
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If the supplements work for you that's great. This is mostly anecdotal evidence though based on individual cases as opposed to large randomized prospective clinical trials with a sound scientific basis.
If you look up the "professional" tab in your link you'll see that there have been hardly any studies/trials with human subjects and if so, no more than 50 volunteers. Every paragraph there is says "further studies are required". That does not compare to the extensive clinical trial program every pharmaceutical has to go through to prove its worth.
