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I'm referring to the conversations I've been involved in within this thread, which ultimately resulted in someone trying to sell me intellectual snake oil. Totally messed up and it just flew right over people's heads. To be honest, I don't know how most of you have opinions one way or the other when it comes to drug discovery and/or side effects given that it was pretty much danced around from the beginning.
As far as your supplements go, which I'm not up to speed on, you may be able to make ressoned case if you want to (if there's anything to it).You seem to want to. What is it? Grape seed oil for allergies? Flax?
I "think" you asked me "what is grapeseed extract"...I really like this link as the overview says it all. I have never purchased from this company. There are literally 100's of links on grape seed extract.
Flax? I don't know, I used some yrs ago but not now.
Disclaimer on Grape Seed Ex: If a person takes a drug blood thinner, then not recommended to take both...one or the other...grape seed ex thins and cleans the blood.
I "think" you asked me "what is grapeseed extract"...I really like this link as the overview says it all. I have never purchased from this company. There are literally 100's of links on grape seed extract.
Flax? I don't know, I used some yrs ago but not now.
Disclaimer on Grape Seed Ex: If a person takes a drug blood thinner, then not recommended to take both...one or the other...grape seed ex thins and cleans the blood.
I did some poking around in pubmed. Appears that grape seed extract is beneficial in a host of areas.
I'm going to look into it for BP control actually. I don't see why you would get any arguments from that. I mean, you are on two regular medications. Nothing wrong going with GSE as long as your primary knows. Also, it's probably best to avoid websites that are selling anything. Go to .edu's or pubmed, NIH, .gov's
I'd like to hear from others and hope this is a good spot for this discussion. It's not welcome in the health area. Am I naive to think they can't or is it they won't. I've thought of this subject for many years.
I get attacked as I talk about taking a great supplement for 22 yrs that got me off allergy and sinus drugs...but to THOSE who attack, this is misinformation...everyone with allergies SHOULD be on the allergy drugs. Oh I gave pharma my money and a doc of allergy issues for many many yrs. NO MORE.
So now you give supplement producers your money, same difference, isn't it? If the supplements work for you that's great. This is mostly anecdotal evidence though based on individual cases as opposed to large randomized prospective clinical trials with a sound scientific basis.
So now you give supplement producers your money, same difference, isn't it? If the supplements work for you that's great. This is mostly anecdotal evidence though based on individual cases as opposed to large randomized prospective clinical trials with a sound scientific basis.
There is published research looking grape seed extract at least. It has benefits and side effects for certain populations as typical.
Sure there is and I am not discounting the supportive effects supplements can have in individual cases. If you look up the "professional" tab in your link you'll see that there have been hardly any studies/trials with human subjects and if so, no more than 50 volunteers. Every paragraph there is says "further studies are required". That does not compare to the extensive clinical trial program every pharmaceutical has to go through to prove its worth.
Sure there is and I am not discounting the supportive effects supplements can have in individual cases. If you look up the "professional" tab in your link you'll see that there have been hardly any studies/trials with human subjects and if so, no more than 50 volunteers. Every paragraph there is says "further studies are required". That does not compare to the extensive clinical trial program every pharmaceutical has to go through to prove its worth.
I don't necessarily think these products should go through the same kinds of clinical trials as new chemical entities. Any more than red wine should to show the benefits of resveratrol. There is a good amount of academic research going on addressing nutrition science. I think the bigger problem is that people are largely uneducated about what it is they are consuming (be from a natural or synthetic source) and how it works. This results in misinformation, degraded communication, scamming, etc.
I think you will probably find "further studies are required" for pretty much everything about any drug (maybe not to the extent for its intended use). I would assume so at least.
Last year I was hospitalized, diagnosed with a-fib and put on Eliquis. Waited five days in telemetry for my heart rate to normalize. Discharged to home and began to have a GI bleed. Returned to the hospital as per doctor's order, had a colonoscopy which determined no active disease (I previously had colon cancer) and the cause was determined to be Eliquis, which was immediately discontinued. The GI doc said he didn't understand why it was still being prescribed.
And yet, there are people who are taking it who are not suffering bleeding. Go figure.
Do I feel a need to sue? To demand payment of any bills because of the side effect? Nah. Neither do I feel the need to warn people who are taking it to watch out for those side effects. (The monograph that comes with the medication lists all the known side effects and the disclaimer that "Your doctor has prescribed this medication because he/she has determined that the benefits outweigh the side effects".) (Or words to that effect)
Having worked in the medical field, we had patients who would call and tell us that they took one dose of a prescribed medication and that night "caught a cold". Or got a flu shot and the next day "got the flu". Or took a dose, went out partying and woke up with a headache. Really?
My first BP med 30 or so years ago caused a continual throat-clearing. When I told the doctor about the annoyance, he immediately knew it was the med and changed it. Other people have taken it and didn't have that throat tickle.
My Mother didn't believe in doctors. She took many herbal supplements. I will say, she had the hardest fingernails ever! She's dead now. I don't blame the supplements. She was going to die at some time, with or without them. Just as I with my choice. I'm not proselytizing. Do what you deem best. Leave me to mine.
I'm going to look into it for BP control actually. I don't see why you would get any arguments from that. I mean, you are on two regular medications. Nothing wrong going with GSE as long as your primary knows. Also, it's probably best to avoid websites that are selling anything. Go to .edu's or pubmed, NIH, .gov's
I go to all sites and have been been studying grape seed ex, not GSE as this is a known liquid anti viral supp and many get the two confused. I've been working with pycnogenol and grape seed extract since 1995.
A few HERE just are so down on supplements as they have strong ties to pharma themselves that they block everything out and others info. They don't want others to "think" for themselves.
I have books on these OPC's the class of these antioxidants.
Controlling BP can take a lot for many like high sodium in foods. Some I think but don't know if that's gospel have that health issue in their family. Magnesium is so important for cardio health. So much to know and work with.
As far as going to sites who sell this and that, these people are not out to get you. They have good info to give and have products to sell too. Truth be known, when I got on Pycnogenol back in 1995, it was by a company lecturing on this OPC and they were bringing it in from France...and yes they were selling it and I bought from them for a year and then went to grape seed extract, I use both sometimes. Pycnogenol is Pine Bark Extract.
What do doctors, write scripts and send you off to buy their drugs, and you shop for what you can afford.
Last year I was hospitalized, diagnosed with a-fib and put on Eliquis. Waited five days in telemetry for my heart rate to normalize. Discharged to home and began to have a GI bleed. Returned to the hospital as per doctor's order, had a colonoscopy which determined no active disease (I previously had colon cancer) and the cause was determined to be Eliquis, which was immediately discontinued. The GI doc said he didn't understand why it was still being prescribed.
And yet, there are people who are taking it who are not suffering bleeding. Go figure.
Do I feel a need to sue? To demand payment of any bills because of the side effect? Nah. Neither do I feel the need to warn people who are taking it to watch out for those side effects. (The monograph that comes with the medication lists all the known side effects and the disclaimer that "Your doctor has prescribed this medication because he/she has determined that the benefits outweigh the side effects".) (Or words to that effect)
Having worked in the medical field, we had patients who would call and tell us that they took one dose of a prescribed medication and that night "caught a cold". Or got a flu shot and the next day "got the flu". Or took a dose, went out partying and woke up with a headache. Really?
My first BP med 30 or so years ago caused a continual throat-clearing. When I told the doctor about the annoyance, he immediately knew it was the med and changed it. Other people have taken it and didn't have that throat tickle.
My Mother didn't believe in doctors. She took many herbal supplements. I will say, she had the hardest fingernails ever! She's dead now. I don't blame the supplements. She was going to die at some time, with or without them. Just as I with my choice. I'm not proselytizing. Do what you deem best. Leave me to mine.
I have two friends both very into herbals/supplements and both came down with this afib. My thinking belief is that they were not taking ENOUGH magnesium for heart health. Dr. Sinatra talks about heart health the natural way and mag is big in his info and books.
Both my friends, believe the heart drugs they take now are causing some of the other issues that are
coming up for them...The kaiser docs took my friend off desiccated support for thyroid and slapped her with synthroid/levo and it's shocking as she took desiccated as long as I have. The profits and under table money gift exchanges have got to be sky high.
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If the supplements work for you that's great. This is mostly anecdotal evidence though based on individual cases as opposed to large randomized prospective clinical trials with a sound scientific basis.
If you look up the "professional" tab in your link you'll see that there have been hardly any studies/trials with human subjects and if so, no more than 50 volunteers. Every paragraph there is says "further studies are required". That does not compare to the extensive clinical trial program every pharmaceutical has to go through to prove its worth.