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One can go to prison for abusing a pet, so one might assume the same for abusing a child. I suppose the opposite of punishing bad behavior is rewarding good behavior. You were whipped for almost nothing & now want to continue the tradition?
I never said any of that. I simply asked a question. I never stated that I was whipped for "almost nothing" and I also clearly stated that I was conflicted on the issue. Earlier in the thread I mentioned that I do not feel as though I was abused by my parents, at all. I'm successful, well adjusted, law abiding ect. On the other hand, I'm not sure if the spankings were what kept me on the straight and narrow. I don't think this has to be a "if you spank your children you are sick and enjoy abuse" thing, that's a really extreme stance to take. It is OK to see nuance in situations that you don't outright agree with.
No, natural consequences are much better. If you use physical punishment on children, this makes you "the bad guy". From a kid's perspective, it is not a consequence of their actions, rather, it is you, the parent, being a narcissistic, overcontrolling boss that cannot negotiate and uses physical force instead.
Hitting by any other name is still hitting.
Everybody, adults and children alike, needs to see how actions relate to consequences. And "consequences" does not mean "punishment". It means "the natural result of an action". For example, the consequence for a child who pesters someone and is rude is that the child gets shunned by that person or asked to leave.
If you don't allow children to experience natural consequences, then again you are the "bad guy", because the child sees nothing really wrong about the act aside from the fact that you don't allow it.
If you think a 6-year-old can't sense that you are imposing something on them by authoritarian fiat, or if you think children don't need to know the real reason something is wrong, you are mistaken.
Obviously you can't allow a 2-year-old to drink a bottle of cough medicine to teach them about "natural consequences", but you certainly can allow children to express their opinions, and talk to them with the recognition that they are free to believe you are mistaken about something and are free to express their opinion just as an adult is. "Talking back" should NEVER be grounds for punishment. The freedom of speech and the freedom of thought are available to all ages.
Natural consequences? Give me a break....smh. We are talking about kids, not adults who should know better.
Some people, when they take the measure of a man (or woman) will look to the greatest things they have done in their life. I choose to look at them at their best, AND look at them at their worst, and the measure of that man (or woman) is somewhere in between.
I know it's fiction, but when I was just a kid "The Loretta Young Show" was still on television, and in that anthology series there was one episode that I've never forgotten. I don't remember a lot about it, but it was about a boy who went to a one room school house and who had a hard farm life. Anyway, one day his teacher noticed that while she was teaching he had his head down and was sleeping at his desk. Being "the POWER" in the room, she took a "fanny whacker" and smacked him hard on the back with it. He didn't wake up. He was dead.
That was fiction. But I also know of a case where a parent had used corporal punishment and within a half hour the child died. The child didn't die of the corporal punishment; it wasn't even that severe. The child just died. That parent regretted for the rest of his life what that last half hour of his child's life was about.
One doesn't know when that last minute of life will occur. When the life will simply drain out of one's body in a matter of moments. For most of us, if we thought of that we might act differently to those we love...if we love them at all.
Some people, when they take the measure of a man (or woman) will look to the greatest things they have done in their life. I choose to look at them at their best, AND look at them at their worst, and the measure of that man (or woman) is somewhere in between.
I know it's fiction, but when I was just a kid "The Loretta Young Show" was still on television, and in that anthology series there was one episode that I've never forgotten. I don't remember a lot about it, but it was about a boy who went to a one room school house and who had a hard farm life. Anyway, one day his teacher noticed that while she was teaching he had his head down and was sleeping at his desk. Being "the POWER" in the room, she took a "fanny whacker" and smacked him hard on the back with it. He didn't wake up. He was dead.
That was fiction. But I also know of a case where a parent had used corporal punishment and within a half hour the child died. The child didn't die of the corporal punishment; it wasn't even that severe. The child just died. That parent regretted for the rest of his life what that last half hour of his child's life was about.
One doesn't know when that last minute of life will occur. When the life will simply drain out of one's body in a matter of moments. For most of us, if we thought of that we might act differently to those we love...if we love them at all.
I can't rep you again, but I have to acknowledge that this was a very thoughtful and well written post.
In Texas, corporal punishment of a child is legal. It becomes illegal when "bodily injury" results. The state Attorney General's web site offers advice about when discipline becomes abusive:
"Spanking with the bare, open hand is least likely to be abusive; the use of an instrument is cause for concern. Belts and hair brushes are accepted by many as legitimate disciplinary "tools," and their use is not likely to be considered abusive, as long as injury does not occur. Electrical or phone cords, boards, yardsticks, ropes, shoes, and wires are likely to be considered instruments of abuse."
Further:
"Finally, and most important, punishment is abusive if it causes injury. A blow that causes a red mark that fades in an hour is not likely to be judged abusive. On the other hand, a blow that leaves a bruise, welt, or swelling, or requires medical attention, probably would be judged abusive."
As of this date, the corporal punishment of children is legal in all 50 states, with some states outlawing its use only in schools.
I've raised a few rowdy boys. Sometimes a bare ***-whipping with a leather paddle was necessary. It hurt like hell but there were no marks, bruises, or welts. The boy in question at the time most definitely learned a lesson and never did/said the offense again. All are now in college or have graduated; all are well-adjusted. Do I regret it ? No.
Have you ever asked your sons...... it hurt like hell with no marks.. well well..
In the interests of fairness, if it is okay for an adult to hit a child, then that child should also have the right to exact physical retribution on the adult.
That was the point at which my teachers stopped using the strap on us at school .... when they realized that the 16 year old in front of them might just hit back and they would probably come off second best. Cowards to a man (and woman) they were.
As a parent and grandparent, I have realized that you don't need violence or the threat of violence to install discipline in kids. Hitting kids simlpy demonstrates the failure of the adult as a parent.
In the interests of fairness, if it is okay for an adult to hit a child, then that child should also have the right to exact physical retribution on the adult.
That was the point at which my teachers stopped using the strap on us at school .... when they realized that the 16 year old in front of them might just hit back and they would probably come off second best. Cowards to a man (and woman) they were.
As a parent and grandparent, I have realized that you don't need violence or the threat of violence to install discipline in kids. Hitting kids simlpy demonstrates the failure of the adult as a parent.
I agree. While I won't go crazy over a light spanking, an effective parent can handle the situation better. I was only spanked twice in my childhood, and I turned out fine...but it had nothing to do with the spankings.
People can't admit it, but most corporal punishment is not well thought it; it's frustration and revenge.
As Frank sang, "regrets, I've had a few, but then again, too few to mention".
What "mindset" do you think you've discovered in me ? And how does this "mindset" lead to an absence of regret ? I think you're being way way way judgmental. You don't know anything about me (or my boys, for that matter) that would enable you to make that kind of conclusion.
Here's what I think generally: kids need to learn that actions have consequences. When that lesson isn't being learned after multiple corrections and educational sessions, sometimes another method (the temporary infliction of pain and embarrassment, without injury) might be useful. Now, that method might lead to compliance, or it may not. But it should remain available for use in the judgment of the parent.
I despise the growth of the ever-vigilant nanny state, and its rules and prohibitions that have no basis other than a sense of superior morality. There has never been a study that definitively shows corporal punishment has an adverse effect on children while controlling for all possible variables. Parents should be allowed to rear their children as they see fit, as long as abuse is not involved. "Abuse" is well-defined and does not encompass the infliction of temporary pain without injury.
the temporary INFLICTION of Pain and embarrassment...yeah that's the tool that defines "good parenting". (complimentary sarcasm )
Let's both agree that while you support and even pridefully defend such an inept tactic to "control" another living being. It has no place in a CIVIL community. Look up being civil, diplomatic and even being respecting. None of them require a paddle or Infliction of pain.
As to being "judgmental", Ohh my! I sure hope I do carry a good sense of judgment for what is healthy discipline vs physical force. I rest my case.
what should remain available as a "parent" is the ability to refrain from harm, be a positive example, Walk the talk that creates a safe environment.
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