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Lemme tell you. "Grown ass men" (might be the worst phrase ever created) always know what they want. In the case you quoted chances are the man probably wanted to go but didnt want to be bothered with the logistics so in his mind "maybe, whatever" because it really wasnt anything he truly cared about.
"Maybe whatever" isn't an acceptable answer for a grown man. Period.
I notice in America, men are generally happy being weakened in their relationships. I hear American men happily spout off the old "happy wife, happy life" addage all the time ..always followed by a hearty high five from some other servile married man and a dopey "harty har har!" betwixt the two of them (although Ive actually witnessed entire roomfuls of married men carry on like this)...they seem to love this arrangement because theyve convinced themselves that being an underling in their own marriage validates that they are a part of an exclusive social club of subservient but married men, and as such, theyre just like the other guys. This is all done under the guise of reassuring each other that theyre all being a "gentleman" and a "good husband" who puts his wife first. However it quickly becomes clear that these guys are simply wimps. They often have no problem trying to stand up to a man because theres nothing truly at stake other than an a** whooping, but they find women, including their wives, intimidating.
But you dont see such an equal level of deference and subservience from married women; not even under the guise of being a "lady" or a "good wife". They know what they want in their marriage, and they get it, or they file for divorce. Their is no cute little selfless and equivalent "happy husband, lifes lovely" type quip to reaffirm the importance of the male half's happiness in their marriage, because most married women dont truly believe that, and therefore dont say it, nor anything similar. In most American marriages I see, both parties have agreed that it is really only the womans happiness that actually matters, and the mans happiness should be derived solely from making his wife happy and dutifully serving his wife, his preferences be damned. And this is all accepted by men with the understanding that this is the price you pay if you want to be able to say youve been normalized and allowed access into the prestigious social club that is marriage and that youre "one of the guys" when youre hiyucking it up with "da fellas" down at the local bar or pub or at the company's holiday party. Personally, I think this is the way American men want their lives to be. Its simple, straightforward, and requires no pushback from either direction.
^^^^This. All of it, and it is the reason I got divorced, and will never marry again. I don't want to live is some overly feminized house playing by some woman's rules. Thankfully I didn't have kids, but I have friends that did. Some of the wives used threats of lying about abuse, and getting restraining orders so they could get custody. One actually had a PFA against him, lost all his firearms (no due process), then had to give up custody, and $$$ to get them back.
To the OP. It isnt necessarily worth the battle to "stand up to their wives". We pick our battles. If it isnt anything the world will end over it isnt worth the fight. Want to paint the bathroom pink? Have at it. That is not the hill we choose to die on that day.
It's not about picking your battles. With a lot of people, give them an inch, and they'll take a mile. For example: a wife will make a mildly unreasonable demand, as a test to see how her husband reacts. If he doesn't stand his ground, the demands will escalate. Consider...
First, they came for my plain white bathroom tile,
And I didn't object, because I can get used to pink.
Then, they came for my fishing magazine subscription,
And I didn't object, because I can still read "Cosmopolitan".
Then, they came for my Super Bowl Sunday routine,
And I didn't object, because I already saw it last year.
Then, they came for my cheat days of pizza and beer,
And I didn't object, because I can learn to like kale salad.
Then, they came for my dignity,
And by then, there was nothing left.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1
All of it, and it is the reason I got divorced, and will never marry again. I don't want to live is some overly feminized house playing by some woman's rules.
Exactly! Every man I know who got married is no longer his own person. He's more like a male version of his significant other. He says he's happy to be married, but... . Maybe it's modern America's perverse values, that a man must submit himself to his wife's rules in order to be considered "adult". But I'd rather be Peter Pan than do that. Especially considering that a woman certainly isn't required to do the same.
Last edited by MillennialUrbanist; 01-29-2018 at 06:29 PM..
I think some of you are really overthinking the "Happy wife, happy life," stuff.
The phrase itself isn't meant to be used a rulebook to how to interact with your wife. I've uttered that phrase many times myself over the years. It's NEVER applied to anything more than simple thing my wife wants and that I really don't care about, or it's an issue of fairness and my wife is now getting "hers" so to speak.
Here's an example. My wife and I have 3 cars between the two of us. Two of them are "mine", one is "hers" though she can drive my daily driver if she needs to, but she has no desire to drive my sports car. We had two SUVs once. I had an older one, and I bought her a much newer one with the idea that she'd be driving it for 5 years or more. Well, that didn't work out, we both didn't really like the new SUV, so we sold it. Then she started driving my SUV. I ended up buying a sedan, partly with the proceeds of selling her SUV. So now I've got the newest car, when it was supposed to be her turn for the newest car.
Anyway, as car guys are wont to do, I still look for cars for myself. However, the wife said that there's no way I'm getting another new car before she does. And I'd tease her and say that she doesn't need a new car, she's carting our kid around and it will only screw up a new car, etc. But I know that she's right... it's her turn for the new car since the last one for her didn't work out. So, she's driving the newest car now after we sold my old SUV. Now, the next new car will be mine, and she won't say a word about it.
Most of the "happy wife, happy life" stuff is used in jest, and it's simply a matter of giving your wife what is fair. Men are more selfish than women in my opinion. So it's not a matter of letting your wife control everything, it's a recognition that they are generally more giving in a relationship/marriage, and sometimes, men need to give them something they want as a matter of balance between both partners.
I see a lot of this kind of "negotiation" and to me it seems more like capitulation than a compromise.
I figure if women really want "equality" they wouldn't be interested in marriage in the first place.
How many women would be content to be responsible for earning half of the money in the household (or at least paying for half of all expenses)?
I think the answer is ZERO, proving that women want to get a deal, not be equals. Now granted they have a different role in most marriages, than men, so its a bit challenging to equalize unpaid work in the home with formal employment or legitimate business ventures outside of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MillennialUrbanist
It's not about picking your battles. With a lot of people, give them an inch, and they'll take a mile. For example: a wife will make a mildly unreasonable demand, as a test to see how her husband reacts. If he doesn't stand his ground, the demands will escalate. Consider...
First, they came for my plain white bathroom tile,
And I didn't object, because I can get used to pink.
Then, they came for my fishing magazine subscription,
And I didn't object, because I can still read "Cosmopolitan".
Then, they came for my Super Bowl Sunday routine,
And I didn't object, because I already saw it last year.
Then, they came for my cheat days of pizza and beer,
And I didn't object, because I can learn to like kale salad.
Then, they came for my dignity,
And by then, there was nothing left.
Exactly! Every man I know who got married is no longer his own person. He's more like a male version of his significant other. He says he's happy to be married, but... . Maybe it's modern America's perverse values, that a man must submit himself to his wife's rules in order to be considered "adult". But I'd rather be Peter Pan than do that. Especially considering that a woman certainly isn't required to do the same.
Wow, I had a kale salad for lunch. I'm way down that rabbit hole!
Wow, I had a kale salad for lunch. I'm way down that rabbit hole!
I actually like kale salad, at least as a side dish. But it wasn't meant to be literal. It was a metaphor for a wife controlling her husband's diet, with no regard for his tastes. (It's even a common TV trope.) For his own good, of course .
I was going to reply with a similar statement, but you just beat me to it. I actually take it one step further, and avoid not only marriage, but any romantic relationships with women. I still have platonic female friends, and they think highly of me. So far, it's served me extremely well: I'm the only man in my group of friends who still gets to go and actually have fun.
Have you sworn off sex or just the romantic relationship entanglements?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MillennialUrbanist
Oftentimes but not always, it's because she's near or past the Wall, and needs to lock down a stable provider right away. Marriage, once a beautiful institution "to join these two in holy matrimony", has become a convenient way for women to lock him down. And such men get into marriage due to fear of not getting sex otherwise, or fear not fitting in with our couple-oriented society. Think about it: naturally desirable men don't get marriage ultimatums. Their company, in women's eyes, is its own reward; no lock-down necessary.
Yah, bingo. It is what an evolutionary biologist might call a female-mediated mating strategy - one that ultimately serves the reproductive strategy. Sexual attractiveness definitely has a shelf life.
Its an evolutionary defense mechanism against having defective offspring or offspring that might be abandoned by the male.
But in human societies as we have become civilized you see that there is a huge amount of plasticity in the way these strategies can be deployed. Modern women face challenges in balancing the mating and reproductive strategies that our ancestors didn't have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MillennialUrbanist
They're friends. It's a different dynamic than romantic relationships. They already know I swore off relationships (although I didn't mention MGTOW to them verbatim), and just shrug it off. Plus, it's perfectly fine to want a stable life. So my thinking isn't really anything new: marriage ultimatums have been quite widespread since the 1970's, enough to find their way into mainstream media and standup comedy.
You're stronger than me. I could never have enough energy to fight tooth and nail for 40 years, just to enjoy a simple hobby. Respect!
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. Maybe it's modern America's perverse values, that a man must submit himself to his wife's rules in order to be considered "adult". But I'd rather be Peter Pan than do that. Especially considering that a woman certainly isn't required to do the same.
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