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When I take your post and strip away the cutesy language that you think makes a point, you're still justifying one group of people stealing the land and resources away from another group of people. Apparently it was "okay" for white colonists to just sail on over and take away what the Indians owned. Okay. So why isn't it okay for MS-13 or Mexicans or others to do the same? Or Russia? Or the Chinese?
I agree. Not all Republicans believe that way. But I don't hear many Republicans speaking out against things like Charlottesville. They mostly remain very quiet.
I don’t hear many Democrats speaking out against, well, most crime, unless it is almost any accusation against a white, conservative/Republican male. That’s a fact.
I would also point out the vast majority of illegal alien children are US citizens. And that percentage grows every year.
Yes, children born in the U.S. to illegal immigrants/aliens ARE U.S. citizens, but the fact that you and others seem to ignore in debate and discussion is that they were born here because their mothers chose to commit an illegal act. Now, of course, in many cases, that might have been a justified and rational decision caused by desperation, but it still adds up to the fact that according to most studies, illegal immigrants and their dependents receive more in services than they pay in taxes.
Again, to emphasize, I know that there has not been a definitive study done on this on which almost everyone can agree, but that is one of the problems with people who refuse to be documented, that no reliable figures can be obtained. (I admit that this refusal is mostly out of self-preservation.)
And I also agree that having a workforce willing to work for very low wages benefits almost all of us, with the notable exception of those U.S. citizens who are or were in such industries as construction and landscaping. If illegal immigrants would be hired for ONLY those jobs that U.S. citizens truly do not want to do -- such as picking grapes and doing other kinds of back-breaking work -- I don't think you would hear so many citizens complaining. (I also would like to see fair wages for EVERYONE, and by saying that, I am criticizing those employers who could pay their workers a living wage and make a profit, but don't. In my opinion, employers that knowingly hire illegal immigrants and pay them a pittance are much more guilty than the immigrants are..)
But, again, my contention is simply that if people want to be here and have all the same benefits as U.S. citizens, they should just do so legally and the government should make it easier for them to do so.
My local YMCA distributes free meals for kids during the summer. I live in an area that doesn't have a lot of immigrants. How sad that we have become such a poor country that families can't afford to feed their children. But at least the rich got their tax breaks.
The poor gets food stamps and Medicare. I see them buying Pringles and ice cream with it. Kinda ruins that narrative doesn’t it?
Yes, children born in the U.S. to illegal immigrants/aliens ARE U.S. citizens, but the fact that you and others seem to ignore in debate and discussion is that they were born here because their mothers chose to commit an illegal act. Now, of course, in many cases, that might have been a justified and rational decision caused by desperation, but it still adds up to the fact that according to most studies, illegal immigrants and their dependents receive more in services than they pay in taxes.
Again, to emphasize, I know that there has not been a definitive study done on this on which almost everyone can agree, but that is one of the problems with people who refuse to be documented, that no reliable figures can be obtained. (I admit that this refusal is mostly out of self-preservation.)
And I also agree that having a workforce willing to work for very low wages benefits almost all of us, with the notable exception of those U.S. citizens who are or were in such industries as construction and landscaping. If illegal immigrants would be hired for ONLY those jobs that U.S. citizens truly do not want to do -- such as picking grapes and doing other kinds of back-breaking work -- I don't think you would hear so many citizens complaining. (I also would like to see fair wages for EVERYONE, and by saying that, I am criticizing those employers who could pay their workers a living wage and make a profit, but don't. In my opinion, employers that knowingly hire illegal immigrants and pay them a pittance are much more guilty than the immigrants are..)
But, again, my contention is simply that if people want to be here and have all the same benefits as U.S. citizens, they should just do so legally and the government should make it easier for them to do so.
It is easy to agree upon what should be. The problem is that which is. We have over 10 million of these people and no practical way to do anything about them. And that is the real problem. And as long as we have this vast set of illegals we will never be able to manage immigration. We simply drown and use all the available resource to try and keep the number of illegals from increasing.
Also note that the vast majority of the illegals would never be admitted in a legal immigration program. So they have no choice to do it legally. It is illegally or not at all.
The construction industry and landscaping industry in most of the SW is now Hispanic. And they are actually paid reasonably well including the illegals. The underpaid illegal is virtually nonexistent once out of the informal labor pool. They are not paid as well as the union workers but they are not paid badly either. In Las Vegas you can watch the two work in parallel. The strip construction is virtually all union and mostly non-Hispanic while the residential construction is all non-union and Hispanic.
It is easy to agree upon what should be. The problem is that which is. We have over 10 million of these people and no practical way to do anything about them. And that is the real problem. And as long as we have this vast set of illegals we will never be able to manage immigration. We simply drown and use all the available resource to try and keep the number of illegals from increasing.
Also note that the vast majority of the illegals would never be admitted in a legal immigration program. So they have no choice to do it legally. It is illegally or not at all.
The construction industry and landscaping industry in most of the SW is now Hispanic. And they are actually paid reasonably well including the illegals. The underpaid illegal is virtually nonexistent once out of the informal labor pool. They are not paid as well as the union workers but they are not paid badly either. In Las Vegas you can watch the two work in parallel. The strip construction is virtually all union and mostly non-Hispanic while the residential construction is all non-union and Hispanic.
Completely agree with all the above.
(I live in the Denver area, and I hear a lot of complaints about "illegals" from the construction and repair people I have hired, so much of my opinion is based on that.)
Again, to emphasize, I know that there has not been a definitive study done on this on which almost everyone can agree, but that is one of the problems with people who refuse to be documented, that no reliable figures can be obtained. (I admit that this refusal is mostly out of self-preservation.)
The administration didn't like the findings in this report, so they had it reworked to exclude income and only include expenses.
WASHINGTON — Trump administration officials, under pressure from the White House to provide a rationale for reducing the number of refugees allowed into the United States next year, rejected a study by the Department of Health and Human Services that found that refugees brought in $63 billion more in government revenues over the past decade than they cost.
The draft report, which was obtained by The New York Times, contradicts a central argument made by advocates of deep cuts in refugee totals as President Trump faces an Oct. 1 deadline to decide on an allowable number. The issue has sparked intense debate within his administration as opponents of the program, led by Mr. Trump’s chief policy adviser, Stephen Miller, assert that continuing to welcome refugees is too costly and raises concerns about terrorism.
Advocates of the program inside and outside the administration say refugees are a major benefit to the United States, paying more in taxes than they consume in public benefits, and filling jobs in service industries that others will not. But research documenting their fiscal upside — prepared for a report mandated by Mr. Trump in a March presidential memorandum implementing his travel ban — never made its way to the White House. Some of those proponents believe the report was suppressed.
The internal study, which was completed in late July but never publicly released, found that refugees “contributed an estimated $269.1 billion in revenues to all levels of government” between 2005 and 2014 through the payment of federal, state and local taxes. “Overall, this report estimated that the net fiscal impact of refugees was positive over the 10-year period, at $63 billion.”
...
The three-page report the agency ultimately submitted, dated Sept. 5, does just that, using government data to compare the costs of refugees to Americans and making no mention of revenues contributed by refugees.
The person you replied to was speaking of illegal aliens, not refugees. Illegal aliens cost us over $113 billion a year after you factor in the tax contributions. It pales in comparison.
You said, QUOTE, "Illegal aliens get no free food." The article I quoted said otherwise.
You also said, QUOTE, "And we provide free emergency medical care to all. But normal medical care is not free. There is an exception for prenatal and birthing but that is for the American citizen child not the illegal alien " And as far as that goes, I think that most of us have known people to go to the ER for treatment that could be done in a physician's office -- and/or is not actually an emergency at all. (As I said, I think that the definition of "emergency" is debatable.)
And as far as your contention that prenatal care is for an American citizen child, if the immigrant was deported before giving birth, the child would definitely not be a citizen, right?
And since when is a fetus considered a citizen (and especially the fetus of someone here illegally)?
And as far as you writing, "Yes the US citizen children of illegal aliens can receive benefits just like any other American. So what?" Well, many of us think that spending billions (or even millions) to support families who are here illegally IS a very big deal, but you dismiss that kind of expense with just two words.
However, as I have said in numerous posts, I do NOT think that any young child should starve or suffer in any way and they should NOT suffer for the misdeeds of their parents, but I think that encouraging illegal immigration is just wrong. Of course, that is my opinion and you are welcome to yours.
(Oh, and btw, as I have also said many times, I don't blame the immigrants for wanting a better life, but I just think that they should become citizens -- and the government should make it easier for them to do so.)
Illegal aliens aren't plain ole "immigrants" and the process for becoming a citizen begins in their homeland by applying to come here legally first and waiting to be accepted. The process doesn't begin our soil after violating our immigration laws. No one has a right to a better life by breaking laws and taking from others what doesn't belong to them. No, it shouldn't be easy for illegal aliens to become citizens in fact they should be denied and deported.
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