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I have been thanked by more than a few South Vietnamese...……...At the time it was in my belief to help them gain their freedom. I guess you had to be there...…….
Vietnam has prospered under communist reunification. Maybe they should have surrendered long before the Yanks showed up with their agent Orange
I've been thinking a lot about this subject lately; I felt that during the Iraq/Afghanistan wars, the Bush Administration was giving a lot of "lip service" to the concept of "support the troops" while at the same time abusing the hell out of the military - deploying the same troops over and over. I thought it was shameful decided I would pick up the check for military folks in uniform - with their families at both restaurants and gas stations. I felt that if we were going to send those troops into war, the least I could do is help support a few in some way.
About 5 years into the wars, I started noticing a lot of military elitism being promoted in another forum I frequented. I got into an argument with a bunch of people who proclaimed that "ONLY those who served in war (not just in the military) should be able to vote. That ONLY if you served should you be able to buy land" and other stupid crap like that. Anytime an argument got heated - even when the subject wasn't related to the military - it would roll around to "I was in the XXX, were you?" I have served my country, did you? I started pushing back by arguing that "yes, I served my country; I worked hard at my job and I paid my taxes. That is enough for me to legally buy my house so I could pay more taxes in order to support you in the service." They didn't like that - a lot. But then they really got pissed when I asked, did you join the military before or after 911? And why exactly did you go into the service?
For many it certainly wasn't about being a patriot, it was about getting a job... a paycheck... a chance to gain from the GI bill. Sorry, I don't see that as patriotic or heroic. I see that as - just as I did when I made my choices - a career move. Yes, there was a strong ramp-up immediately after 911, but how many people volunteered after it became clear that it was an extremely dangerous job? While I acknowledge those who joined before, I do not fetishise them for their service.
I saw a broad spectrum of people who serve. I saw people who believed they need to serve because their country was calling, and I saw those who served because they signed a contract they couldn't get out of. And I see people like Vasillios Pistolis; is there anything about him that should be honored? I don't think so.
My local FOX channel shows commercials every 20 minutes for a personal injury lawyer who advertises "I was a teacher, I am a christian, and I am a marine, I know how to fight for you!" The military is necessary and a good choice for many people, but lets not make believe that everyone joined for heroic reasons or that they are all honorable leaders, or even decent people.
Lets not forget that there are good and bad in every group of people and keep it in perspective. Yes, they should have the finest equipment available and the best military care if we send them to war, and they deserve a fair chance at a good job when they come home, but I do think some people go too far in their desire to lionize anyone who has ever worn a uniform.
Two of the bad things that come of this attitude and fetish are the extremely bloated military budget and problems we have with the police who don't know the difference between protecting and serving and suppressing the population.
"ONLY those who served in war (not just in the military) should be able to vote. That ONLY if you served should you be able to buy land" and other stupid crap like that. Anytime an argument got heated - even when the subject wasn't related to the military - it would roll around to "I was in the XXX, were you?" I have served my country, did you? I started pushing back by arguing that "yes, I served my country; I worked hard at my job and I paid my taxes. That is enough for me to legally buy my house so I could pay more taxes in order to support you in the service." They didn't like that - a lot. But then they really got pissed when I asked, did you join the military before or after 911? And why exactly did you go into the service?
For many it certainly wasn't about being a patriot, it was about getting a job... a paycheck... a chance to gain from the GI bill. Sorry, I don't see that as patriotic or heroic. I see that as - just as I did when I made my choices - a career move. Yes, there was a strong ramp-up immediately after 911, but how many people volunteered after it became clear that it was an extremely dangerous job? While I acknowledge those who joined before, I do not fetishise them for their service.
Two of the bad things that come of this attitude and fetish are the extremely bloated military budget and problems we have with the police who don't know the difference between protecting and serving and suppressing the population.
I owned a duplex (I lived in one side and rented the other. It was near an air base, so I often rented to service men/women. The main reason being that the army paid their rent, so it was a sure thing. The other being that if they damaged the property I could reprt that to the base commander so, for the most part, they didn't.
Believe me, I heard that stuff all the time. I don't know if it's something that they learn in the service (the sense of entitlement because they are superior to the other 97% of the country), or if it comes from the constant "thank you for your service" everywhere they go while in uniform.
The other thing I heard constantly (because I hung out with them in the backyard a lot) was how and what they do to boost their benefits after they leave. One woman, a retiring sergeant was an expert at what to do before her exit physicals to get disability status. For instance did you know that eating sugar before blood work can show pre-diabetes? Or that there is no way to dispute a reported seizure? She couldn't get the PTSD because she had a desk job, but she accomplished her goal and retired with a 75000 a year pension and a substantial bank account and a big house in Kentucky that she rented to a general (so the mortgage was being paid by taxpayers, with a nice profit). I have to wonder how often that scenario is repeated and if this is the reason for the ever increasing military budget.
Yes, the preferential hiring of veterans on police forces is having the effect of bringing the 'everyone is the enemy' mentality to our streets. I've heard it from the older cops about the complete change in the atmosphere of departments since they began to take over. One of a cop's biggest prides used to be to say he'd never drawn his weapon in his years of service - now it's the go-to. I'm prepared to BET that almost all the cases of hair trigger policing that make the news are military trained cops. And, have you noticed that the same expectation of adoration now includes cops. Apparently no-one is doing their job for the paycheck or extraordinary benefits anymore - they do it out of a Mother Theresa-like love for their fellow man.
Well perhaps you ought to look at this list that includes all (that I could find) American missions since the end of actions related to World War II that included fighting and/or bombing. I bolded all (ahem) those against "white" nations. Notice anything?
1948: Berlin: Berlin Airlift
1950–1953: Korean War
1955-1975: Vietnam War
1961: Bay of Pigs Invasion
1962–1975: Laos
1965: Invasion of Dominican Republic
1968: Laos & Cambodia secret bombing campaign
1970: Cambodian Campaign
1983: Grenada
1986: Libya: Operation El Dorado Canyon
1987: Persian Gulf: Operation Nimble Archer.
1988: Persian Gulf: Operation Praying Mantis
1989–1990: Panama: United States invasion of Panama and Operation Just Cause
1991: Iraq: Operation Desert Storm
1991: Iraq: Operation Desert Sabre
1995: Bosnia: Operation Deliberate Force
1996: Kuwait: Operation Desert Strike
1998: Iraq: Operation Desert Fox
1998: Afghanistan and Sudan: Operation Infinite Reach
1999: Serbia: Operation Allied Force
2001–2014: War in Afghanistan
2003–2011: War in Iraq: Operation Iraqi Freedom
2004: War on Terror
2004–present: The U.S. deploys drone strikes to aid in the War in North-West Pakistan
2007: Somalia: Battle of Ras Kamboni
2010–present: al-Qaeda insurgency in Yemen
2010–2011: Operation New Dawn
2011: 2011 military intervention in Libya
2011: Operation Neptune Spear.
2011: Drone strikes on al-Shabab militants begin in Somalia.
2013: Navy SEALs conducted a raid in Somalia
2014–present: American intervention in Iraq
2014: 2014 American rescue mission in Syria
2014–present: American-led intervention in Syria
2014–present: Intervention against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant
2014: 2014 Yemen hostage rescue operations against al-Qaeda
2017: 2017 Shayrat missile strike
2018: 2018 bombing of Damascus and Homs
I don’t play the “whites and browns” games. People are people the world over. You should look inward to combat your own obsession with race. It’s a strange but all too common obsession.
I don't fully agree with either you or your friend's position. I'm a realist, others would probably consider me more left politically but I don't see myself as either left or right. Basically I think people are selfish, more or less out to serve themselves. Yes this includes those that choose to join the military. Of course they sacrifice, but so does every single other person with a job. Otherwise they wouldn't be paid for doing what they do. Think about it. Military "service" has an awful lot of benefits for anyone joining. Name me another profession that a kid straight out of high school can join and get free housing as well as the opportunity to travel the world. For many people it's simply the best financial option and an enticing lifestyle choice. Not to mention the general adoration from the public regarding anyone in uniform.
As for the public service sector, it's a job, and as with most jobs you have to provide some kind of service to get paid. What's so special about public service in general? Nothing IMO. As far as the military being exposed to danger more often than your average person. Yes that is true, but just being exposed to danger does not make you any better than anyone else. How about drug dealers, gang leaders, hitmen, etc? So the general assumption is that the military protects us civilians from danger so we owe them gratitude. This is something I do not agree with. I don't think anyone has every protected me or make my life safer by invading a country halfway around the world. Bottom line is that while I don't hold anything against someone having a military or any other "public service" job, I would never hold them in higher esteem than anyone else just because of their chosen occupation. The people who chose these occupations do it because it's what's best available for themselves, not because of some desire to help others selflessly.
Exactly. Many, if not most military personnel don't join the military out of some lofty sense of duty to their country; they join because it's the career that they want. The military offers a whole host of benefits that civilian jobs can't match, especially if one doesn't have a lot of education. And most military members don't ever see combat. They fulfill a variety of positions comparable to those in civilian life.
I don’t play the “whites and browns” games. People are people the world over. You should look inward to combat your own obsession with race. It’s a strange but all too common obsession.
No, you bomb the people you're told to bomb, who are inexplicably 99% of the time very poor and brown. And a lot poorer and more desperate after they've been 'saved' than before you showed up. You didn't choose your targets. Everyone is always "just following orders"
Well the white people had nukes pointed at each other and the fights were about whose side their ex colonies would join should the nuclear MAD shield fail.
I've also seen veterans' remarkable sense of entitlement... which seems to be loudest and proudest among those who've never seen combat but love those government benefits. But honestly it's not a big concern of mine. I'm ok with people getting socialist hand-outs... and no matter how many entitled military people believe that only *they* deserve rights... it's just empty bluster for the most part.
My concern with America's habit of kissing veteran asses is that it's so easy to twist that slobbering adoration into support for every half-baked 'war' that our betters come up with. Iraq is the easiest and most recent example... but the Vietnam war is just a monument of imperial stupidity.
And despite the *now obvious* and well documented lies and stupidity behind both wars, people remain in denial and refuse to criticize because somehow supporting the war is equated with "supporting the troops". In our American culture of teary-eyed military-worship, sending as many soldiers as possible out to die for the most half-baked and corrupt reasons we can produce... is somehow "supporting the troops".
That's the *power* and the danger of our childish, quasi-religious affection for "the troops". When this level of uncritical emotionalism is involved, people are ripe for exploitation. Praise them hard enough and they'll DEMAND that they be exploited.
Last edited by turkey-head; 08-14-2018 at 07:19 AM..
Believe me, I heard that stuff all the time. I don't know if it's something that they learn in the service (the sense of entitlement because they are superior to the other 97% of the country), or if it comes from the constant "thank you for your service" everywhere they go while in uniform.
Neither. It comes from that individual's personal wiring. How he or she reacts to the world around them. No different than any civilian: You have those who have a chip on their shoulder (which they would have with or without military service) and military service is just the conversation where they are able to focus this chip. If they had never joined the service they'd find some other area to manifest the chip on their shoulder.
There are some service members who are like that. Many, perhaps most, are not.
No, you bomb the people you're told to bomb, who are inexplicably 99% of the time very poor and brown. And a lot poorer and more desperate after they've been 'saved' than before you showed up. You didn't choose your targets. Everyone is always "just following orders"
Seems to me you have your own war to win so you can punish us for our deeds. Current events seem to point to you getting your big chance quite soon. I wish you luck.
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