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Old 10-25-2019, 01:08 PM
 
3,259 posts, read 3,766,753 times
Reputation: 4486

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeIsGood01 View Post
I don't get why any American not in the a1% would be against Universal Healthcare since every other first world nation has it and so do some third world nations.
Besides your statement not being true, the reason is cost. I am willing to pay market rate for my healthcare, just as I am for my car, my food, and my housing. If you want a car, food, housing, or in this case... healthcare... I think you should pay the market rate too. Making more money doesn't mean you should have to pay more for the identical good or service.

Quote:
Why do you like a system where a private ambulance can refuse to transport you to the hospital unless you pay first.
Because whenever I have a good or service that somebody wants, I want to be paid for it.

Quote:
Why do you think it's fine for insulin which costs $5 to make to be sold for $500?
If that's what the market deems it is worth, then so be it. In reality, this is more of a problem with how insurance is handled... not with the free market.

Quote:
Why do you think it's fair for a person to have an illness and need treatment and you go from being charged $1000 a month with a $200 copay to a surprise $20K charge and a $4K copay and then next month calling and being told that they can't tell you how much it will cost ahead of time
Transparency in charges beforehand would be nice. You can always simply ask for how much something will be and if "they" won't tell you, then you simply refuse treatment. When you go to a restaurant, and you see something is labeled M.P. (market price), did you know that you can ask your server for how much that actually is? And based on the answer, you can either buy or not buy the product? Amazing stuff, I know.

Quote:
And why do you fight so hard and protect billionaires to keep getting richer while many are one paycheck away or one fire or tornado away from being homeless?
I don't fight so hard to protect billionaires from getting richer. I fight to protect my own wealth I am creating for myself. The vast majority of Americans (99%+) who are one paycheck away from homelessness have made a critical financial mistake... and probably more than one... so I don't really feel that bad for them.

Got any other leading questions that you need answered?
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Old 10-25-2019, 01:13 PM
 
3,259 posts, read 3,766,753 times
Reputation: 4486
Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeIsGood01 View Post
And if our healthcare system is so great why do not other countries want to implement it? Plus they would fight tooth and nail to keep what they have.
Perhaps the masses of people who can't afford the market rate for things like housing and healthcare want to keep what they have.

But for the most part, people who actually create value in the economy would rather pay for their own things and not be forced to pay for others.
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Old 10-25-2019, 01:24 PM
 
861 posts, read 865,230 times
Reputation: 2189
Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeIsGood01 View Post
I don't get why any American not in the a1% would be against Universal Healthcare since every other first world nation has it and so do some third world nations.
If you were charged with first degree murder, who would you want to represent you, a public defender or the best legal team money can buy?
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Old 10-25-2019, 01:26 PM
 
12,016 posts, read 12,746,342 times
Reputation: 13420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuero View Post
If you were charged with first degree murder, who would you want to represent you, a public defender or the best legal team money can buy?
I agree that billionaires are getting away with murder.
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Old 10-25-2019, 01:30 PM
 
12,016 posts, read 12,746,342 times
Reputation: 13420
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveklein View Post
Besides your statement not being true, the reason is cost. I am willing to pay market rate for my healthcare, just as I am for my car, my food, and my housing. If you want a car, food, housing, or in this case... healthcare... I think you should pay the market rate too. Making more money doesn't mean you should have to pay more for the identical good or service.



Because whenever I have a good or service that somebody wants, I want to be paid for it.



If that's what the market deems it is worth, then so be it. In reality, this is more of a problem with how insurance is handled... not with the free market.



Transparency in charges beforehand would be nice. You can always simply ask for how much something will be and if "they" won't tell you, then you simply refuse treatment. When you go to a restaurant, and you see something is labeled M.P. (market price), did you know that you can ask your server for how much that actually is? And based on the answer, you can either buy or not buy the product? Amazing stuff, I know.



I don't fight so hard to protect billionaires from getting richer. I fight to protect my own wealth I am creating for myself. The vast majority of Americans (99%+) who are one paycheck away from homelessness have made a critical financial mistake... and probably more than one... so I don't really feel that bad for them.

Got any other leading questions that you need answered?
Your argument is silly you can't compare a can of beans to health insurance, you can buy one get one free on beans you can't do that with health insurance, you are comparing apples to oranges.

The market does not decide the price of insulin 3 Big Pharma companies who sell it do and set the price, that's price fixing not free market. and you should care because all out tax money goes to pay for the insulin of the poor on Medicaid who can't afford it.

Selfish or greedy people don't feel bad for others.
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Old 10-25-2019, 01:58 PM
 
2,669 posts, read 2,089,301 times
Reputation: 3690
Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeIsGood01 View Post
I don't get why any American not in the a1% would be against Universal Healthcare since every other first world nation has it and so do some third world nations.

Why do you like a system where a private ambulance can refuse to transport you to the hospital unless you pay first.

Why do you think it's fine for insulin which costs $5 to make to be sold for $500?

Why do you think it's fair for a person to have an illness and need treatment and you go from being charged $1000 a month with a $200 copay to a surprise $20K charge and a $4K copay and then next month calling and being told that they can't tell you how much it will cost ahead of time

And why do you fight so hard and protect billionaires to keep getting richer while many are one paycheck away or one fire or tornado away from being homeless? or going bankrupt from a medical bill or not being able to pay for treatment and end up dead.
Because Americans are poorly educated and not very bright. A lot of middle class Americans also absolutely don't care about the suffering of poorer people as long as they themselves are OK. They blame poor for their problems.
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Old 10-25-2019, 02:01 PM
 
Location: moved
13,641 posts, read 9,698,765 times
Reputation: 23447
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveklein View Post
... I am willing to pay market rate for my healthcare, just as I am for my car, my food, and my housing.

Transparency in charges beforehand would be nice. You can always simply ask for how much something will be and if "they" won't tell you, then you simply refuse treatment. When you go to a restaurant, and you see something is labeled M.P. (market price), did you know that you can ask your server for how much that actually is? And based on the answer, you can either buy or not buy the product? Amazing stuff, I know.
Refusing treatment is only an option if the procedure is elective, or the malady is so devastating that it might be a reasonable choice to simply just die. If you have an excruciating tooth-ache, it is impractical to refuse an extraction. You don't need an implant or some costly restorative procedure, but short of a self-administered hammer-and-chisel, there's no option.

The patient is a captive-audience. That already renders the transaction inapposite with the very idea of free markets. If one of the party to a contract isn't really free, then the transaction isn't strictly volitional.

The other problem is collusion and monopolies. I can have my car repaired, if I so choose, by a mechanic with no credentials and no professional affiliations. I don't really have that choice in medicine. I can't go to Uncle Fred's Emergency Clinic, where a doctor who lost his license to malpractice, or a semi-doctor who failed medical school, practices at sharply reduced rates. Neither can I really outsource my surgery to China. With some creativity and aplomb, I could shop around locally... maybe even go to another state. But then I'm still in thrall to the American Medical Association.

Healthcare utterly fails to meet the most basic definitions of a free-market. So, it's silly to apply free-market concepts to healthcare.

The system "works" because it's a flagrant ruse on both sides. Medical providers charge wildly different prices depending on who pays (Medicare, private insurance or individuals without insurance). And patients with insurance or Medicare don't really see (or pay) the full cost. Both sides therefore abide by the ruse.
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Old 10-25-2019, 02:03 PM
 
Location: southern california
61,288 posts, read 87,384,526 times
Reputation: 55562
Because if they don’t give him The right of a shot at being rich they won’t get a shot either
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Old 10-25-2019, 02:03 PM
 
19,966 posts, read 7,866,332 times
Reputation: 6556
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Everyone should know that the reason we have Medicare and Social Security is because of mass labor organizing.

Looks like you've bought into the anti-worker agenda of the oligarchy.

If you think the ruling class is satisfied with staying in the south, you're delusional. Wages and worker rights are always worse somewhere else. And they move there. Its a race to the bottom. Thats why lone rangers dont stand a chance against this concentrated power. When workers dont organize, their future is decided by Wall Street. You can try and run for Congress and see how you'll do. Even if you work like a dog to get elected and every person in your state support your policies, you wont even get 1% of the vote unless you're swimming in money. Thats the power of money.

I agree there. While I think union's demands sometimes did go too far, I think that is mostly a red herring. The companies would've left for lower labor costs, unions or no unions. The real problem is globalism along with mass immigration. These are federal government policies and unions aren't enough to correct the problem.
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Old 10-25-2019, 02:03 PM
 
12,016 posts, read 12,746,342 times
Reputation: 13420
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefiantNJ View Post
Because Americans are poorly educated and not very bright. A lot of middle class Americans also absolutely don't care about the suffering of poorer people as long as they themselves are OK. They blame poor for their problems.
And they scream that they are being cheated if they have to pay an extra 10 cents payroll tax a week and think of the poor billionaires who will have to pay 2 cents on the dollar of all the money they are hoarding.
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