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Watch this and then wonder why ubi is hated. Unemployment is not working right now. The labor market is rather bad right now (besides essential jobs) and there are many who have to return to work besides the fact they have comorodities or live with someone who does.)
Wow, reading a lot of this debate I am glad my 3 American teens are dual citizens and can also live in Germany, it's already much more economically successful in terms of the typical citizen who enjoy a good standard of living, great public education, affordable high quality healthcare and a strong manufacturing base. Germany have also dealt with COVID-19 much more effectively as they have many of the world's best rated labs and were ready to go with creating and producing tests. The America that many people seem to want is even harsher and more merciless than its is already. I can't see myself wanting to stay here if it goes in that direction, I'll take my business and move it to Europe where people care about their fellow citizens.
Ironic then that the Americans seem to be influenced more by Kant and Nietzsche than their German counterparts. Still though Germany doesn't have UBI, just comparatively more generous social programs.
So does the U.S. already have small scale UBI? Not sure its been covered in this thread, but my understanding is the Earned Income Tax Credit and others (child tax credit?) can result in a negative tax liability, i.e. the government pays you. Hard to find data on this group but I do recall it is about 1 in 7 U.S. taxpayers. One of the benefits touted by EITC is that even though it initially results in revenue losses it does encourage people to enter the workforce. I'm not sure UBI in it basic form would accomplish this, in fact it might do the opposite.
All this thread and the UBI lovers have still not answered the basic question of where will the money come from. Provide a real answer. Not "tax the rich" or some other throwaway line, but real, economic analysis of who will be taxed how much and why you expect them to actually produce anything if they will be taxed so much they don't gain. Come on guys, tell us where the money tree grows or where's the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
Why get up in the morning and make a life for yourself when you're just gonna get a check anyway?
Because that check just keeps your head above water. 80-90% of people are going to want more than just keeping their head above water. Just like in today’s well fare society. Sure we will have 10-20% that are happy with the bare minimum but we already have those people anyway.
The real problem as mentioned before is inflation. UBI accomplishes nothing when everyone has an extra $2K per month to spend. Only a matter of a couple of years for that extra 2K to be completely eaten up with price increases in everything. I’m that regard UBI is not a problem. Those who still work and receive UBI payments will be far ahead of those who chose not to work. Just as those who chose not to work or work crappy part time jobs are well behind today. But UBI fixes nothing so why have it at all? Only good reason would be to eliminate all other well fare programs.
All this thread and the UBI lovers have still not answered the basic question of where will the money come from. Provide a real answer. Not "tax the rich" or some other throwaway line, but real, economic analysis of who will be taxed how much and why you expect them to actually produce anything if they will be taxed so much they don't gain. Come on guys, tell us where the money tree grows or where's the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
I notice a lot of people whom attack UBI but stayed silent when we bailed out big businesses, and even small businesses. People were mostly fine with the first two stimulus packages but when there was one for Main Street (the Sanders UBI or even the second round stimulus) we act like the first didn't take effect yet. It only hasn't due to some red tape mind you. We are playing politics with people's livelihoods. I'm not just talking businesses but even first responders. A number of states who have seen revenues drop due to Covid-19 are looking at budget shortfalls and will have to layoff public workers even first responders should they not get their own bailout. This is irregardless of if they are a blue state or a red state.
Economically we will be in a recession because consumers who were laid off but couldn't get on unemployment rolls or unemployment rolls were tapped out (this is fairly close to happening) we have a lot of people who's only income in this has been the stimulus check. As states start to reopen, many of these workers and many others have to shift buying patterns. Why, they have other costs. Debt don't take a holiday. Rent will just double up, same with utilities. Food prices are going up too. That eats away at the economy.
I notice a lot of people whom attack UBI but stayed silent when we bailed out big businesses, and even small businesses.
Most people critical of "bailing out" businesses don't even know what it means or the terms of the "bailout". Do you? Businesses aren't typically being given piles of free cash. Most of it is in the form of loans and tax breaks.
Most people critical of "bailing out" businesses don't even know what it means or the terms of the "bailout". Do you? Businesses aren't typically being given piles of free cash. Most of it is in the form of loans and tax breaks.
Loans that in most cases will be forgiven (free cash) as long as the recipient keeps their payroll.
Till September 30, 2020. United Airlines has already incurred the wrath of competitors by tipping their hand and announcing that, on October 1, 2020 they will lay off 30% of pilots and 30% of their administrative employees. Clearly, they are more concerned about the positive effect on the stock price by the announcement than outrage from competitors or the general public. They have taken billions in forgiven loans because they have complied by the terms. Do you doubt that Southwest and other carriers aren't planning the exact same thing?
Loans that in most cases will be forgiven (free cash) as long as the recipient keeps their payroll.
Perhaps. That remains to be seen how it is interpreted and administered. And that has never been a feature of past "bailouts" which people are whining about.
Wow, reading a lot of this debate I am glad my 3 American teens are dual citizens and can also live in Germany, it's already much more economically successful in terms of the typical citizen who enjoy a good standard of living, great public education, affordable high quality healthcare and a strong manufacturing base. Germany have also dealt with COVID-19 much more effectively as they have many of the world's best rated labs and were ready to go with creating and producing tests. The America that many people seem to want is even harsher and more merciless than its is already. I can't see myself wanting to stay here if it goes in that direction, I'll take my business and move it to Europe where people care about their fellow citizens.
And how did that work for Merkel when she tried to open up the borders for increased refugee intake?
It's not like Germany is without her problems. If she's so caring about people on economic terms, how is that being reflected in dealing with the southern EU areas? Germany benefits from a massive carry trade that would have normally pushed up the Mark to levels where it became unprofitable. However, with the proliferate south holding down the currency, it can continue to dominate the Euro area. Frederick's dream has been realized at least in economic terms.
All this thread and the UBI lovers have still not answered the basic question of where will the money come from. Provide a real answer. Not "tax the rich" or some other throwaway line, but real, economic analysis of who will be taxed how much and why you expect them to actually produce anything if they will be taxed so much they don't gain. Come on guys, tell us where the money tree grows or where's the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
They can't, aside from firing up the printing presses...which has been time and time again in socialist paradises. The problem has never been solved. The current crop of disciples hasn't given an answer because it's an equation that cannot be solved and the puppet masters instruct them only to deflect by bouncing to another issue. Like trained ADHD.
Which is maybe the real reason why UBI is hated. Limited scale and circumstantial UBI might have benefits, but the backers have a different agenda. It is the promised bread and circuses to the masses. It's touted by the same group that wants to open the borders to all. It would only take one election to destroy the country and swell millions of people in to continue to vote for more circus acts and bread. Overnight the population would swell by 100,000,000 people, here or not, all seeking a handout or healthcare.
America would be destroyed.
There is a reason why the communist party was the only party actually made illegal by law, and it was done before the cold war. They are dangerous. You should do what you can to eliminate these people from your workplace and lives. A new generation that has had no contact with the cold war is unaware about the tremendous lies and capacity for deception socialists are capable of. As we age, it's become apparent that our herd immunity is wearing off. We need to teach them.
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