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So ... if you get COVID and die, it doesn't matter how many you take with you, as long as you assume responsibility for your own death?? - I suspect 'Typhoid Mary' felt the same way ... as do those who irresponsibly spread STD's or even intentionally inflict/infect others with one thing or another?
If you knew you were infected, would you make any effort to at least stay away from your aging parents or loved ones ... or is it 'their responsibility' to look-out for you, as a means of protecting themselves?
In my opinion, if everyone looked out for their own safety, I wouldnt take anyone with me and if I did, they already accepted that risk when they left the house. As far as an STD goes, if I hooked up with a prostitute, did not use protection and got an STD, it would certainly be my fault, not the prostitutes.
If I knew I was infected, I would absolutely make an effort to stay away from others. If I were to go to a private residence, its up to me to ensure I dont infect anyone, whereas a public place, I feel is up to the individual to protect themselves.
I'll just make a generalized comment here that is less directed at you than it is at a particular philosophy: I call this "rugged individualism" or "libertarianism".
This philosophy may work well in certain areas. For example, looking back, it was just absurd for government to be so preoccupied about people smoking marijuana. States that still have laws that prohibit smoking marijuana ought to repeal them. I am seriously leaning that way when it comes to things like hard drug use and prostitution.
The problem with any "political philosophy" though is that it has it limits. Being a liberal democrat has its limits when taxes and spending reach a point that no one wants to pay.
The limits of libertarianism appear to be epidemic disease. You just can't say "everyone gets to do what they want" when dangerous infectious disease is spreading throughout a community. Some limits have to be in place and some limits have to be enforced. Risk has to be balanced against benefit here just like it is everywhere else in life.
The old saw that "if you don't like it why don't you just get immunized and not worry about us" doesn't work for a variety of reasons: First, immunization is not 100% effective in preventing disease because some people don't develop immunity when immunized; Second, only about ten percent of the public has received a covid shot at this point; and Third, some people are allergic to the vaccine and cannot take it; Fourth, we don't know yet whether those immunized can still spread the virus to others.
I know you don't accept this and right now I don't particularly care. I'm making it as a general statement.
yes, and what's the risk?
right now ...
1.4x as many people have received at least 1 shot as have tested positive for the disease
29x as many people have received at least 1 shot as have been hospitalized
13x as many have recovered as have been hospitalized.
less than 2 out of 100 who get the virus die. When you eliminate cases and deaths for 65+, you have a 0.4% chance of dying from Covid.
Only those who have Covid can spread Covid, yes? So, if I don't have it (maybe I've tested negative; maybe I've tested for anti-bodies; maybe I'm 12 days past shot #1), then I cannot spread it - mask or no mask.
Even if I don't meet one of the above, then I can only spread it to you under fairly uncommon conditions - if we don't know each other well. And #1 would require both of us to be within 6 ft of each other, for 15 minutes. Wearing a mask - both or either - cuts that slim probability down even further.
Going out and about, knowingly with Covid, and unmasked and hanging out inside within 6 ft of someone for > 15 seconds - that's a real risk to you, the innocent and cautious person.
Whenever I read the words "political" in a thread discussing COVID I know that we will never really get this behind us. But once myself and everyone I care about is vaccinated I may tend to categorize this under "Their Problem" just a bit.
If Covid spreads amongst those who dont care, whats the big deal? As long as those who do care take the necessary precautions and get the vaccine, than they are covered. If I died tomorrow due to COvid, the accountability falls upon me and no one else.
It will be at least 6 months before all those who do care are able to get vaccinated. In the meantime, they're vulnerable, even if they take precautions. And there now is are one or two even more highly contagious variants circulating.
Also, some of the people who don't care will end up sick with the virus. Of those, some will end up in the hospital ICU. Of those, some will die. Even young people with no risk factors have died from Covid. Some have gotten the original Covid and recovered, then a couple of months later, gotten the local mutation, and died from that.
The reason this could affect the people who DO care and are taking precautions, is that finding new hosts is how viruses spread (and eventually mutate). The way to stop a pandemic, is to not provide the virus with opportunities to multiply. Being callous and indifferent only keeps the virus happy and multiplying.
It means I know something about what vaccines are capable of that most don't
I'm really hoping you will expound on this point, as I for starters; could use the education.
It seems we are being destined for multiple vaccinations, and a time frame for back to normal the same as it was 100 years ago on the Spanish flu.
Have we not made enough progress in medical science over the past century?, certainly feels that way. https://www.city-data.com/forum/60398406-post4.html
Just found this on another thread, interesting.
I'm really hoping you will expound on this point, as I for starters; could use the education.
It seems we are being destined for multiple vaccinations, and a time frame for back to normal the same as it was 100 years ago on the Spanish flu.
Have we not made enough progress in medical science over the past century?, certainly feels that way. https://www.city-data.com/forum/60398406-post4.html
Just found this on another thread, interesting.
I read that link and the author of the post says we need to wait three to four years to assess the effect of vaccines.
Let's see...we've lost about 500,000 Americans so far because of coronavirus. If we wait three years before we vaccinate that would mean about 1.5 million would die.
No sane person can endorse that kind of a position based on pure speculation that there is some "evil" long term effect from vaccinating.
Last edited by markg91359; 02-19-2021 at 08:54 AM..
I read that link and the author of the post says we need to wait three to four years to assess the effect of vaccines.
According to many other articles I've read, 5 years; particularly with new methods on producing said vaccines.
Obviously that wasn't feasible during a pandemic such as this.
While we do have somewhat differing opinions on masks, we do agree on the need to vaccinate...yesterday!.
What's prolonging this process(other than weather)are the wait and see attitudes, or in my case; waiting for the more traditional J&J vaccine I'm comfortable with.
A question if I may, is not a low exposure to the actual various strains similar to receiving a vaccine?.
Not that much people died after given a dose of vaccines. I read only about 3 people dying. So that is good to hear. They had other ailments to them when they got the vaccines. I think it is a safe thing. But the bad thing is, it has side effects. By end of June or July, the greater public will be in on it and allowed to be vaccinated. 2021 June or July
Whenever I read the words "political" in a thread discussing COVID I know that we will never really get this behind us. But once myself and everyone I care about is vaccinated I may tend to categorize this under "Their Problem" just a bit.
Except that it’s not. The virus mutates. It’s highly likely that your vaccine won’t protect you from upcoming mutations and we circle back to where we were in November waiting for the Big Pharma outfits to release a vaccine that then protects us. And with the same supply shortage and rationing debacle.
I figure I’ll be getting a booster with a tweaked vaccine every 6 to 12 months for the foreseeable future. There will be a window where I’m best served reverting to InstaCart and staying away from enclosed public spaces until the vaccine kicks in.
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