Misogyny and its cause. (wages, weapons, revolution, school)
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Yea I also knew a woman killed in Agra for trying to divorce from her husband, which insulted his family. She left him and kept working for an clean water NGO in the city despite his refusal of her to leave. Eventually he caught her walking and left her dead in a ditch on the side of the road. The husband then killed his 2 year old kid and himself. Horrible story that would have been on national news here in the states but was not exactly huge news over there. I don't think India is the worst place either but there is certainly serious problems. I think we should at least acknowledge how progressive and fair the USA is (in 2021) compared to much of the world.
There could be more changes needed but if we can't acknowledge our successes then it's hard to get people on board with other changes. It makes the person look like they can't tell common sense and can't appreciate progress anyway. Why would I get on board with your new changes if you never appreciated the others?
Progress doesn’t need to be driven by how “appreciative” someone is of the progress. Women in the USA shouldn’t have to prostrate themselves because women in India have it so much worse. We can both continue to address our own country’s issues while recognizing worse issues in other places. What are we to do, say “thank you great and mighty men that we can drive, work in any job we want, and don’t need to have a male guardian- how can you please make it so women aren’t still being objectified in movies?”
Why would I get on board with your new changes if you never appreciated the others?
People who are fighting for equal rights, representation, or simply to be treated fairly do not require those who hold power to get on board with them, they simply pull up their bootstraps and keep fighting. If women or minorities stopped and "appreciated" the positive changes which have been brought about in society, despite often violent opposition from those who didn't want these changes to occur, the US would have never progessed out of the 18th century. People not getting on board either by ignoring the problem or actively opposing it, stirs the spirit to fight even harder.
Progress doesn’t need to be driven by how “appreciative” someone is of the progress. Women in the USA shouldn’t have to prostrate themselves because women in India have it so much worse. We can both continue to address our own country’s issues while recognizing worse issues in other places. What are we to do, say “thank you great and mighty men that we can drive, work in any job we want, and don’t need to have a male guardian- how can you please make it so women aren’t still being objectified in movies?”
You need to thank the women who fought for those rights probably more than the men, which I think you already know that. Women will stop being objectified in movies when people stop paying to see movies that objectify women. Money talks mate. The social virtues aspect is a convenient fiction tacked on long after the financial projections were run.
Lucky enough it's already happening. Look at all the women starred superhero movies and such coming out lately. It's not because the movie industry suddenly changed their values... It's because women are making up a bigger part of the audience for these kind of movies than ever in the past, and they are spending as much or more money than the men at the box office. Young men who used to be the top audience for these kind of films dont't aren't putting the money they used to and women are doing it. So the ladies get the heros they want and it sounds like everyone wins.
You need to thank the women who fought for those rights probably more than the men, which I think you already know that. Women will stop being objectified in movies when people stop paying to see movies that objectify women. Money talks mate. The social virtues aspect is a convenient fiction tacked on long after the financial projections were run.
Lucky enough it's already happening. Look at all the women starred superhero movies and such coming out lately. It's not because the movie industry suddenly changed their values... It's because women are making up a bigger part of the audience for these kind of movies than ever in the past, and they are spending as much or more money than the men at the box office. Young men who used to be the top audience for these kind of films dont't aren't putting the money they used to and women are doing it. So the ladies get the heros they want and it sounds like everyone wins.
You aren’t even getting the underlying issues here… in the past, movie production has been heavily dominated by men. More recently, studios are actually willing to accept making more and more shows with women directors, writers, etc. Even previously when you had shows with a female-oriented plot, you would often have male directors and writers writing about how they thought women would react. Now that we have strong female directors like Shonda Rhimes who are both able to present strong female leads and be hugely popular/successful, the tide is starting to shift toward offering more shows that appeal to women.
People aren’t going to see films that don’t appeal to their demographic, and actually having directors, writers, and other people on the production staff who are part of that demographic helps.
You aren’t even getting the underlying issues here… in the past, movie production has been heavily dominated by men. More recently, studios are actually willing to accept making more and more shows with women directors, writers, etc. Even previously when you had shows with a female-oriented plot, you would often have male directors and writers writing about how they thought women would react. Now that we have strong female directors like Shonda Rhimes who are both able to present strong female leads and be hugely popular/successful, the tide is starting to shift toward offering more shows that appeal to women.
People aren’t going to see films that don’t appeal to their demographic, and actually having directors, writers, and other people on the production staff who are part of that demographic helps.
I think writing is one of the fields where women have been most able to excel in the past. Perhaps because they could use a pseudonym to avoid sexism of the times and because it didn't require much external resources to be a writer, it's only based on the talents of your own mind.
As far as movies production, that is a totally different beast because it's such an expensive endeavor to produce a major motion picture. That's not something you can up and do without a ton of money and/or a ton of connections. I can see how that industry would be more likely to exclude women and other groups who don't have access to those things. It sounds like we both agree that things are on the right direction though in that industry? So that is what I mean as something that should be celebrated and acknowledged as it happens.
I think in many ways women still have been able to drive the direction of film and entertainment culture because of how valued they are (even if largely as sex symbols). I've heard about this in the context of rap music aswell the dancers decide what music sells on the streets because the men only come out to the clubs and spend their money to access the women. Women come out when they like the music and the vibe so they ultimately pick which songs are hits and the artists rely their approval to succeed.
Another thing I think about in terms of women and marginalized groups in general is the value of representation at the top (role models) versus representation throughout (actual outcomes for average members of the group).
Is having one female president worth more or less than having 10 female mayors? The female president will likely be a role model for millions of people, but extremely few of them will ever become president. The 10 female mayors might only be role models for hundreds or thousands of people, but their roles are ones that is much more achievable for the average woman(or the average man) if they want to do it.
How do we compare the value of elite status role models versus general outcomes for ordinary folks? Can they even be compared in an objective way
If we had an industry where the lowest status jobs were heavily male, the middle management jobs were heavily female, and the top management was heavily male, would that be fair or unfair? Lets say women make more than men on average in this company, but the top men make more than the top women. Is that fair or unfair?
I posted about a girl being killed in a horrible way overseas, and I had a pretty emotional reaction to that as I'm sure you will understand. Then I read a post by someone complaining how female characters are depicted on TV sitcoms.
We certainly are working on removing misogyny from sitcoms (yes, I've seen a few episodes of Kevin Can F Himself). In America we have already eliminated the gang murder of teenage girls for wearing blue jeans. Let's give ourselves credit for what we've done (both men and women need to work together) while working on the problem.
gender equality and gender violence has been addressed only because woman and men have been talking about and demanding solutions. we are still not there yet because of people who gaslight any of those issues exist or are misogynists. we are not done yet.
That's what I'm talking about. It's easy to look at American sitcoms and complain about how women are portrayed while ignoring how women literally suffer every day all over the world. Respect for women needs to be taught to men, and not only in America.
the way women are portrayed is a powerful message as to how women are seen. it is literal.
the way women are portrayed is a powerful message as to how women are seen. it is literal.
Agreed. The slobs in ghettoes and trailer parks who beat and oppress women take their cues mostly from pop culture, which emanates ultimately from Wall Street board rooms and from Hollywood producers.
Agreed. The slobs in ghettoes and trailer parks who beat and oppress women take their cues mostly from pop culture, which emanates ultimately from Wall Street board rooms and from Hollywood producers.
violence against women has no class barriers. one of our past multi millionaire president has admitted to so much.
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