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This rory person also believes in sterotypes. And apparently, Blacks lack good character. If you are going to sterotype, I guess it is a good thing to do it across the board with everyone.
I know quite a few Asian people that have rhythm, are not nerds, are not effeminate and are pretty hot - male and female. Prehaps Rory lives in Montana and knows all the Asian people in town. He/she should try moving to the west coast where one finds Asians in every party of life. Then he/she would know that not all Asians are nerds with flat butts.
This rory person also believes in sterotypes. And apparently, Blacks lack good character. If you are going to sterotype, I guess it is a good thing to do it across the board with everyone.
I know quite a few Asian people that have rhythm, are not nerds, are not effeminate and are pretty hot - male and female. Prehaps Rory lives in Montana and knows all the Asian people in town. He/she should try moving to the west coast where one finds Asians in every party of life. Then he/she would know that not all Asians are nerds with flat butts.
Can we get back on topic?
like i said this thread is surreal. you are putting words in my mouth when i was referencing "character" is because of what a former poster kept harping (if you had bothered to read the thread) on as an example of looking past outward or physical characteristics but you "thinking" in this manner is just stereotypical projection. this whole thread is just mindnumbing stereotypical projection. oh, they are saying blacks have bad character, let's repeat blacks are discriminated. close curtain. all else is not real.
knowing quite a few asian people who do not fit the stereotype doesn't NEGATE FROM THE REALITY(pay attention!) that not everyone or even the majority do or don't see asians that way. there are blacks who don't fit stereotypes and all races! it's not that i believe that asians are this or that but i was using that as an example and how people have thier own bigotry or stereotypes or likes and dislikes which can be derived from racism(but you can't force people to like you or prefer anyone or type or race or look). Do you understand context??
anyone with a brain cell can tell by reading this thread that i'm one of the few posters on this thread who has even shed any light of realism on this subject.
let me make it clear once and for all (it will probably be ignored though).
it's clear(to those who have a brain and in touch with reality) that the prejudice asians face is with mainstream america and the model minority stereotype or those that the mainstream perceive as accepting most of asians are the subsect of society AND they are also rejected by traditional racists.
whereas blacks fit into mainstream culture or predominant society and are rejected by certain members or subsect of society. usually traditional racists.
if you take a look at the two above, it's clear that using the two ethnic groups as counterexamples to illustrate the overall picture, that everyone has their own areas where they will be the recipient of racism, though they may differ in where and from whom based on other's perception of them.
what has constantly been blindly reiterated by others on this thread can be likened to someone stating that blacks or asians or whites are victims of racism yet never look at the other side of the coin and realize their are also perpetrators among those in your own group or race and others experience it and even victims of it but naturally you are not going to experience or see that as much. it's like a baseball game, one is left field and another maybe out in right field. how can one believe they are the sole recipient of all this so-called stereotyping and racism when others experience it as well just not coming from the exact same sector or individual or subculture usually but still overlap as well as traditional racists are just that, they reject anyone not of their race and that is what everyone has in common.
I find Asians attractive, but I don't see alot of them wanting to date me, not that there aren't any.
cry me a river, turn that statement around and it would be just as true.
please do a survey(if you have to do a survey to realize this, then you are out of touch with present society) and get back to me the results. lmao
please ask every african american male and female you come across what race they would like to date or marry in order. i already know the overwhelming majority would not pick asian. that's because i don't live under a rock so i'm in touch with reality and not like these wierd posters. lol
i mean i still can't believe the consistent and erroneous one-sided view on this. it's hilariously like a charade, almost narcissistic sociopathic.
what i find odd is the idea of complaining a certain race or person doesn't want to date you in the first place. right there, i wouldn't be interested because of that. it doesn't even make sense because it's an indication that the person does not have the same values as you or values you so why even bother or even want to date them. it just seems illogical. this is not the days of arranged marriages or some forced tit for tat dating program. people choose what they like or don't even if it's colored by personal bigotry which everyone has including blacks.
My guess would be they haven't met every woman who does not share his ethnicity.
Just like that battle of the sexes BS..none of the usual initiators have met ALL members of the genders on Earth they are categorizing.
Nonsense? Please. I take it you are very young...the world is not a textbook ruled by absolute scientific rules.
"...blacks can date across all races as much as any other minority or race and it is not set in stone for them either..." Theoretically, yes. Legally, yes (although the case in Louisiana suggests that is no slam dunk).
Yes, racism not only exists everywhere but it resides in every heart. Whether we choose to act upon reason rather than prejudice is up to each one us. However, you need to experience a but more of life and the history of the US to better judge the effects of racism. How on earth can you even suggest that the Black experience in America should be considered one amongst equals with those of other races? Note: I am not suggesting Black exclusivity on anything here. Rather, the Black experience in the US has been almost exclusively defined by race--much like that of Native peoples.
Are Blacks racist? I am sure some are. But the racism of the oppressed is often defined by cultural survival than of purist ideologies or shame, the latter two far more prevalent to the Asian community.
Note that no explanation, regardless of rigour, should justify a racist act. Again, as human beings the power of reason should overcome most urges to act on stats. However, one can understand how the poorly educated with act more on animalistic instinct and irrational hatred. So of course, in no way should one accept the doctrine of "anything goes." But let me ask, did anyone argue for a blank check to be racist? I do not think so.
White/Black couples. Yes, they are out there. But these unions are more rationally explained by common experience and frequency of contact than by racial choice theory.
Many Asians, particularly recent first/second generation) paint themselves into a racial corner by virtue of their drive for educational survival/prestige. Of course, there are clear explanations for this that are obvious to anyone caring to look at the data. But this removes many (not all) from the common experience that poorer Blacks and Whites.
So go look at ten high schools. Look at the activities different races gravitate towards. The drive for excellence and exclusivity is at the same a time a drive toward isolation and away from shared rites of passage. The same can be said of many Jews. However, the Jewish experience in the US is also one that has moved in lock step with pop culture and as such did not lead the self-isolation of many Asians as seen in Asian enclaves.
The same applies to neighborhoods. I lived in a city of 45% Asian (probably 60% by now). Friends live in areas 80%+ Asian. Both are due to the excellence of the schools. Endogenized self-segregation.
"...since when are people free of prejudice? some can and some won't depending on who and what family and thier particular values are and what they will accept..."
This is nonsensical. What is your point? Don't bother talking about it? It is not binary: you are racist or or not. We all discriminate. Too simple. I would argue that discrimination is essential to the human experience. But whether we decide to close our minds to reason and our hearts to fairness and compassion is another question. I cannot speak for others, but I do not see posters looking for utopia but for a mature dialogue, the basic function of CD threads.
"this idea of dating across all cultures or races is a bit unrealistic."
Again, the voice of a young man with only limited experience with the US and this world. Geez, open your eyes and go outside of your neighborhood! People think that those who discriminated against are the victims. Those who pay the highest cost are those who blindly discriminate on the basis of race, colour or creed. Hey, if you want to limit the playing field, be my guest. Don;t be surprised if one day you find yourself outside looking to get back into the game.
Travel to places like Barcelona, Buenos Aires, Caracas, Sweden, Korea, Japan, the US heartland, Prague, etc. You come back and tell us if you do not want to change "...a bit unrealistic" to "...something I should have been aggressively pursuing since age 14."
But...if you are in an isolated community, then perhaps... But do not for a minute think that others are not isolated or care to remain isolated.
"other minorities cannot date across all cultures like it's some free for all that blacks are not privy to. and to the extent they can, so can blacks."
You are arguing theory again. America is all about breaking through byzantine prohibitions. Some immigrants want to retain their old world values. This is counterproductive and quite foolish and leads to self-isolation. I am no fan of such people as they serve that isolation--especially today when we have full documentation of past ignorance. Those who chose to obey family/cultural codes rather than the intrinsic values have only themselves to blame.Blacks, however, are often excluded not by their actions but by the closed minds of others. There is a fundamental difference.
"...everyone has thier own bigotry and it's not all the same or directed at or about the same race! why are people so hardheaded and totally ignore the facts. it is unbelievable."
Calm down and build your arguments. Your entire thesis is, "we all are bigots racists and face constraints. Get over it, Blacks, you are not the only ones." Fine, but your responses are random bits and pieces and are not easy to follow with any sense of proportion. I think the hardhead is your own.
I have to say I am amazed at your vitriol. You must live at the computer and not get out enough. There is a difference between the casual comment "Blacks cannot date across all races" and robust empirical finding. You seem to think you have won the argument based on the empirical finding that there are black-white couples, ergo blacks can date across all races. This of course is preposterous and not the point being made by baybook.
There is communication behind the language. Quit thinking of this as a simplistic logic puzzle, where one example disproves the claim of nonexistence. Only an immature kid would make such an argument. Even during the time of slavery, there were black-white marriages, White-Native marriages, Black-Asian marriages, etc. But for each of these, there were limitless taunts, many killings, and a devastating isolation unimaginable to Americans today.
You know, there is an ugliness to your ignorance they needs redress. I suggest a lot of interracial, intercultural and international dating and love-making. Couple that with numerous interracial, intercultural and international pub crawls, ball games, comedy shows, backpacking, and karaoke. You need to live a but more life to get rid of that childish self-righteousness that is threaded into almost every comment and non-argument you have made.
The world is not black and white, but filled with many shades of grey. Perhaps you will understand that one day and join humanity in all of its multi-hued glory.
This rory person also believes in sterotypes. And apparently, Blacks lack good character. If you are going to sterotype, I guess it is a good thing to do it across the board with everyone.
I know quite a few Asian people that have rhythm, are not nerds, are not effeminate and are pretty hot - male and female. Prehaps Rory lives in Montana and knows all the Asian people in town. He/she should try moving to the west coast where one finds Asians in every party of life. Then he/she would know that not all Asians are nerds with flat butts.
Nonsense? Please. I take it you are very young...the world is not a textbook ruled by absolute scientific rules.
"...blacks can date across all races as much as any other minority or race and it is not set in stone for them either..." Theoretically, yes. Legally, yes (although the case in Louisiana suggests that is no slam dunk).
Yes, racism not only exists everywhere but it resides in every heart. Whether we choose to act upon reason rather than prejudice is up to each one us. However, you need to experience a but more of life and the history of the US to better judge the effects of racism. How on earth can you even suggest that the Black experience in America should be considered one amongst equals with those of other races? Note: I am not suggesting Black exclusivity on anything here. Rather, the Black experience in the US has been almost exclusively defined by race--much like that of Native peoples.
Are Blacks racist? I am sure some are. But the racism of the oppressed is often defined by cultural survival than of purist ideologies or shame, the latter two far more prevalent to the Asian community.
Note that no explanation, regardless of rigour, should justify a racist act. Again, as human beings the power of reason should overcome most urges to act on stats. However, one can understand how the poorly educated with act more on animalistic instinct and irrational hatred. So of course, in no way should one accept the doctrine of "anything goes." But let me ask, did anyone argue for a blank check to be racist? I do not think so.
White/Black couples. Yes, they are out there. But these unions are more rationally explained by common experience and frequency of contact than by racial choice theory.
Many Asians, particularly recent first/second generation) paint themselves into a racial corner by virtue of their drive for educational survival/prestige. Of course, there are clear explanations for this that are obvious to anyone caring to look at the data. But this removes many (not all) from the common experience that poorer Blacks and Whites.
So go look at ten high schools. Look at the activities different races gravitate towards. The drive for excellence and exclusivity is at the same a time a drive toward isolation and away from shared rites of passage. The same can be said of many Jews. However, the Jewish experience in the US is also one that has moved in lock step with pop culture and as such did not lead the self-isolation of many Asians as seen in Asian enclaves.
The same applies to neighborhoods. I lived in a city of 45% Asian (probably 60% by now). Friends live in areas 80%+ Asian. Both are due to the excellence of the schools. Endogenized self-segregation.
"...since when are people free of prejudice? some can and some won't depending on who and what family and thier particular values are and what they will accept..."
This is nonsensical. What is your point? Don't bother talking about it? It is not binary: you are racist or or not. We all discriminate. Too simple. I would argue that discrimination is essential to the human experience. But whether we decide to close our minds to reason and our hearts to fairness and compassion is another question. I cannot speak for others, but I do not see posters looking for utopia but for a mature dialogue, the basic function of CD threads.
"this idea of dating across all cultures or races is a bit unrealistic."
Again, the voice of a young man with only limited experience with the US and this world. Geez, open your eyes and go outside of your neighborhood! People think that those who discriminated against are the victims. Those who pay the highest cost are those who blindly discriminate on the basis of race, colour or creed. Hey, if you want to limit the playing field, be my guest. Don;t be surprised if one day you find yourself outside looking to get back into the game.
Travel to places like Barcelona, Buenos Aires, Caracas, Sweden, Korea, Japan, the US heartland, Prague, etc. You come back and tell us if you do not want to change "...a bit unrealistic" to "...something I should have been aggressively pursuing since age 14."
But...if you are in an isolated community, then perhaps... But do not for a minute think that others are not isolated or care to remain isolated.
"other minorities cannot date across all cultures like it's some free for all that blacks are not privy to. and to the extent they can, so can blacks."
You are arguing theory again. America is all about breaking through byzantine prohibitions. Some immigrants want to retain their old world values. This is counterproductive and quite foolish and leads to self-isolation. I am no fan of such people as they serve that isolation--especially today when we have full documentation of past ignorance. Those who chose to obey family/cultural codes rather than the intrinsic values have only themselves to blame.Blacks, however, are often excluded not by their actions but by the closed minds of others. There is a fundamental difference.
"...everyone has thier own bigotry and it's not all the same or directed at or about the same race! why are people so hardheaded and totally ignore the facts. it is unbelievable."
Calm down and build your arguments. Your entire thesis is, "we all are bigots racists and face constraints. Get over it, Blacks, you are not the only ones." Fine, but your responses are random bits and pieces and are not easy to follow with any sense of proportion. I think the hardhead is your own.
I have to say I am amazed at your vitriol. You must live at the computer and not get out enough. There is a difference between the casual comment "Blacks cannot date across all races" and robust empirical finding. You seem to think you have won the argument based on the empirical finding that there are black-white couples, ergo blacks can date across all races. This of course is preposterous and not the point being made by baybook.
There is communication behind the language. Quit thinking of this as a simplistic logic puzzle, where one example disproves the claim of nonexistence. Only an immature kid would make such an argument. Even during the time of slavery, there were black-white marriages, White-Native marriages, Black-Asian marriages, etc. But for each of these, there were limitless taunts, many killings, and a devastating isolation unimaginable to Americans today.
You know, there is an ugliness to your ignorance they needs redress. I suggest a lot of interracial, intercultural and international dating and love-making. Couple that with numerous interracial, intercultural and international pub crawls, ball games, comedy shows, backpacking, and karaoke. You need to live a but more life to get rid of that childish self-righteousness that is threaded into almost every comment and non-argument you have made.
The world is not black and white, but filled with many shades of grey. Perhaps you will understand that one day and join humanity in all of its multi-hued glory.
S.
basically you didn't say anything with all that text but just textbook pie in the sky ideas. maybe i should make it even simpler. i know what you want to hear is the blacks are more discriminated in dating, marriage and in society. well, AGAIN, you glossed over the fact everyone faces discrimination today and arguing a nonpoint.
You cannot argue about black/white relationships because that exists and is pretty common and you cannot argue about theoretical ideas of how everyone should be free of prejudice of any kind, ain't gonna happen. Some blacks will marry whites, some whites will marry blacks but not all will on either side. pretty elementary. i mean, i've even been told by a black man that he had to hide his white fiance and told her to wait outside because he knew his mother wasn't going to take the news well he was going to marry a white woman! EVERYBODY HAS THIER OWN PREJUDICES.
As for asian women dating more white men than others, i don't think that's great either. as a matter of fact, i think a majority of these women are marrying simply because they are self-hating, though of course not all of them.
Besides that, to be totally frank, asian women are not more special, better mothers, better lovers, better wives etc than anyone else. some are good people and some are not just like anyone else. No one is losing out by not dating or marrying asians.
to focus on which race dates more or whom based on race is just as racist as if they are duty bound to quell some sense of perceived snub or for other's piece of the pie . hello?? oh asians should be dating more equally blah blah blah. it's kind of exploitive actually to think like that. you should date based on mutuality. why don't you just club people over the head and drag them by the hair to your cave lair.
the black/white/hispanic argument is moot. they all have thier prejudices and when they hook-up as well.
asians are not even as physically attractive by western or even most standards and they are not even a large percentage of the population in america and even if they dated more outside of thier chosen demographic or whatever patterns, there is no real loss or gain. they are just other people.
so the flipside is to pursue based on race is pretty hypocritical and as equally racist. i also scorn asian women who pursue white men because of that too. even though it's thier personal business including others, i don't personally approve but i don't have to follow or do what others do and others have the same choice.
so what if more asian-american women prefer to date whites, the fact anyone wants the attention of a certain race but does not get it, is just writing on the wall. hint: evidently it is about race and are interested because of thier race whether it be white, black, asian etc and has been hinted on this thread but not outright admitted, otherwise they would just chalk it up to the person is not interested, not complain and find someone who is interested in them, not "loathe" the so-called imbalance. hey, then just marry someone in your own race or someone who will accept you, that's a thought isn't it? unless you are trying to prove something..hmm?
like i said, i never complained or found it odd or thought it was my "right" to be able to date anyone of my choosing which i perceive a very unrealistic and though veiled chauvinistic attitude prevalent on this thread. if someone rejects me, my attitude is not "how dare they reject me because i'm this or that race."
that attitude is rather strange and normal people will understand that you will be rejected for all types of reasons including your race. to fight that, is not about relationships, it's political. in as much as i think the prevalence of asian/nonasian relationships to be rather unnatural, it's the same in america but a bit less so because of the different culture and peoples. so yes, even the abundant asian/white relationships in the west i think are an anomaly in the greater scheme of things though can be explained by certain conditions and western prominance right now culturally and on a biological level such as putting a tiger and lion within the same environment. i think most people are attracted still to those of their own race BUT unlike those who believe all interracial relationships are unnatural, i think some of them are. there is always the fringe, subcultures etc and those unlike the prevailing theme and that is also natural.
What difference does it make if some people's dating preferences are fueled by racism? As long as their racism doesn't cross over to other areas such as the job or housing market, it shouldn't really matter.
I also wonder why people who refuse to date outside of their race or are not attracted to certain ethnicites are considered "racist", but people who exclusively date outside of their race are called "openminded". I wouldn't call Wesley Snipes "openminded".
What difference does it make if some people's dating preferences are fueled by racism? As long as their racism doesn't cross over to other areas such as the job or housing market, it shouldn't really matter.
I also wonder why people who refuse to date outside of their race or are not attracted to certain ethnicites are considered "racist", but people who exclusively date outside of their race are called "openminded". I wouldn't call Wesley Snipes "openminded".
Look at this statement below and how amazingly out of touch with reality it is as if blacks when racist is "cultural survival of the oppressed" but when some others do it's "purist ideology". that's pretty damn hypocritical spin because it's implying that african-americans are never instigators. times have changed. on top of that, it's ignoring the reality that there are blacks who are racist toward asians or minorities which they have no historical racial excuse even on that front and it has nothing to do with "cultural survival" but their own bigotry just as anyone else can have. believe it or not, african-americans can dislike or have racist ideas about asians and others for the same reasons whites or anyone else can. the fact they are a different race. it isn't from oppression and it can be predatorial and opportunist just like anyone else. a black person making fun of asians as flatasses, chinks, not having rthym, slanty eyes etc is still racism and there is no more valid excuse that they somehow magically deserve as for anyone else.
if anyone was sane and honest, nonwhites have not done anything institutionally to blacks in the first place to even warrant any kind of legitimate backlash or protection from "oppression" or resentment or racism as the statement is trying to insinuate. people can be racist to anyone and for any reason and it can be just general dislike or differences. the reasons cited on this thread have been manipulative and purposely skewed out of context. still, there are people of all races who are not racist including africans and african-americans just like any other peoples.
Quote:
Are Blacks racist? I am sure some are. But the racism of the oppressed is often defined by cultural survival than of purist ideologies or shame, the latter two far more prevalent to the Asian community.
Quote:
Quit thinking of this as a simplistic logic puzzle, where one example disproves the claim of nonexistence.
i'm not the one who is doing that, it's just the opposite. i'm aware that racism exists from all sides for all different reasons and thier particular tastes, values, wants and stereotypes. the truth is so obvious. and blacks are not clamoring to love everyone like some hypothetical neutral entity. they also have standards, prejudices and quirks and thier own likes and dislikes from thier own culture as well as individual. like no one knows that?
Last edited by rory00; 10-24-2009 at 08:40 AM..
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. hello?? oh asians should be dating more equally blah blah blah. it's kind of exploitive actually to think like that. you should date based on mutuality. why don't you just club people over the head and drag them by the hair to your cave lair.
they also have standards, prejudices and quirks and thier own likes and dislikes from thier own culture as well as individual. like no one knows that? 