Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You're too funny. Give it up. Debate the topic or take your leave.
Fair enough. You do realize that "laid back" is a "cultural stereotype" and not a "motto." Moreover, laziness, shiftlessness, and indolence were viewed as negative qualities in traditional Hawaiian culture.
If you thought that I thought that the official motto of Hawaii had been changed, I apologize for misleading you. It is an informal motto, a recurring theme. but the Official Motto remains unchanged, which, as I recall is "The Aloha State".
The official motto of the State of Hawaiʻi is the following "Ua mau ke ea o ka ʻāina i ka pono" ("The life of the land is perpetuated by righteousness"). Kamehameha III first spoke those words in 1843 after Great Britain restored the "sovereignty" of the Hawaiian monarchy. "The Aloha State" is merely a "nickname" for the State of Hawaiʻi.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi-san
It isn't the 1800's anymore. The world is far more complicated etc, than it was was in Ages gone by. What could survive as an independent kingdom in the age of Sail, won't do well in the current era.
I will reiterate my position, based on a myriad of facts, but IMHO, Statehood was the best thing to ever happen to Hawaii at large, and the worst of all possible courses of action wold be to undo that relationship, which would be a lose-lose-lose... The only possible winners would be a few flimflam artists working for their own interests, rather than that of the Islands overall.
The world was, is and will remain, a dangerous place.
While such things can never be proven, I would opine that any of the major Japanese Islands would have a far better chance at being a Nation than the Hawaiian Islands, IMHO. The Hawaiian culture is just too weak to do so.
Your "myriad of facts" (and the conclusions based upon them) are probably just as correct as your "recollection" of the "official motto" of Hawaiʻi. Do some research and consider taking a few basic Hawaiian, Japanese, and American history classes.
Have you guys ever thought why the ancient hawaiians had a system of kapu? With the exception of the royalty kapu system, what was the purpose of kapu besides law & order? (Non Native & Hawai'ians please)
Kapu (Taboo) was a system of thousands of spiritual laws, covering every aspect of daily life, that were intended to keep the gods happy and preserve mana, or spiritual power, thought to be the breath of the gods.
From a modern perspective, it's hard to understand how people could live under such intricate, harsh and unforgiving laws. The penalty for breaking kapu was death, by clubbing or drowning or strangulation or burning or stoning, with no trial and no appeal*. And some of those laws that could get you killed were...
Only men were allowed to eat pork, coconut, bananas, certain fish. They were kapu for women.
Women's food had to be prepared separately from men's.
Women and men could not eat together, nor could a woman even enter a man's house while he was eating.
Commoners were not allowed to touch anything belonging to Ali'i (Chiefs), who had "sub chiefs" to tend to their needs. Commoners couldn't even let their shadow touch a Chief's shadow.
Women had to retreat to a small, designated hut during their period, because they were forbidden to sleep in their husbands' houses at that time.
No conversation was allowed in the village while fishermen were tying up their hooks. It had to be quiet.
Only kahuna (priests) and royalty were permitted to approach the volcano, and only kahuna could live in the area.
*The laws of kapu were so rigidly enforced that sometimes if someone had broken kapu they would just kill themselves rather than wait for the law officer to arrive. The only alternative was to run for the pu’uhonua, the temple of forgiveness and place of refuge, and if they reached it before the ‘ilamuku caught them, the kapu would be forgiven.
Yes, the kapu helped the King and Ali'i hold a firm grip on their power, but yeeesh, would anyone really want to return to those days?
If you thought that I thought that the official motto of Hawaii had been changed, I apologize for misleading you. It is an informal motto, a recurring theme. but the Official Motto remains unchanged, which, as I recall is "The Aloha State".
The official state motto of Hawaii is Ua Mau Ke Ea O Ka Aina Ka Pono.
Translated into English it means "The life of the land is perpetuated in righteousness."
In 1810, Japan and Hawaiʻi were relatively equal in terms of "industrialization." What occurred in Japan starting in 1868 that changed the pace of industrialization? And what prevented a similar event from taking place in Hawaiʻi?
I suppose the answer you're looking for is the restoration of the Emperor, but it seems to me that the correct answer is that the country was opened up to foreign trade
Quote:
Education is highly regarded in traditional Hawaiian culture as well. Apparently, you've never heard the Hawaiian motto, "Kūlia i ka nuʻu" ("strive to reach the summit"). Moreover, Kānaka maoli (usually aliʻi) that had the financial wherewithal often sent their children abroad to the United States and Europe for higher education during the 19th Century.
I think that was cool back then, yes, but do those values hold today? Regretfully, I don't see much evidence that is true for the masses.
Bringing it back to the here and now, I think the "instigators" for Hawaiian independence are incredibly naive about what all it would take to replace the current state and federal governments and private systems.
Let's start with the financial system. One of the sovereignty websites literally says "the only thing that will change is who the rent checks are sent to." Ummmmm... in what currency? Drawn on what banks? Running on what system? Regulated by what entity? The idea that a modern economy can just be turned on a dime, oops, sorry, dimes will no longer be considered money... the idea that like Mickey Rooney and friends promoted that, "hey, we can put on a show in the barn!" can run a country is naivete unleashed.
As far as the tourist trade, the much-reviled-by-locals primary economic driver of the state, I would expect a precipitous drop in that industry, to parallel the way tourist trade always withdraws from politically unsettled areas around the globe. Let's say that half the tourist trade evaporates, for starters... a generous estimate... what does that do to... everything?
What's that leave? Agriculture? But nobody but privileged urban hippies, trustafarians, and newly-immigrated Hmong people want to get back to small farm agriculture, and large scale agriculture requires capital, and oh yeah, did you notice, capital really dries up in areas of political upset? Nobody can get loans. Starting a small business? Pretty much limited to small stalls at the flea market. Maybe selling cassette tapes of Jawaiian music and bags of red bananas, if you can find bags.
So, yeah, sure, why not turn Hawai'i into a REAL third world country?
Location: not sure, but there's a hell of a lot of water around here!
2,682 posts, read 7,570,329 times
Reputation: 3882
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi-san
I suspect that a huge hunk of the population, and certainly those with brains, skills, education and know-how, would flee back to the mainland, leaving the situation even more desperate.
Do tell, Robin, or Jeffington,,, excuse me, my mistake, Mr. Yoshi-san this go-around, just how desperate are we?? From your perspective that is. I take it you're on Oahu? Or perhaps the Big Island??? Maybe Maui? Oh, wait a second, you don't live in Hawaii.... But, regardless of that somewhat glaring fact, do tell us folks who do live here just how desperate things are.
Oh, wait a second, you don't live in Hawaii.... But, regardless of that somewhat glaring fact, do tell us folks who do live here just how desperate things are.
We REALLY want to know
He may not live in Hawaii but I'm sure he has plans to move to Hawaii and use his fortune to blast out a basement for his future house.
The kapu system was based on the spiritual belief that everything was interconnected and majority of the laws were put into place to maintain balance with the earth, nature, ohana and eachother. It was believed that everything had a cycle. There was times of the year you didn't fish because fish were mating and replenishing. Most Hawaiians didn't break the nature kapu because they were afraid to cause inbalance in nature and unleash the wrath of the gods and nature that was felt by alot of people. The point isn't that they feared the wrath of god etc but what is important is there understanding of interconnectiveness and balance with the resources they had.
Your focus on the monarchy kapu system is narrow. Where do you see unbalance today in Hawaii, nature etc? Sure we are all interconnected and we all live on one canoe, but if only half are paddling and bailing water to restore balance then we all will all drown. So who isn't listening?
The kapu system was based on the spiritual belief that everything was interconnected and majority of the laws were put into place to maintain balance with the earth, nature, ohana and eachother. It was believed that everything had a cycle.
Yikes - you have no clue at all how destructive the first arrivals to Hawaii were do you. It's quite shameful actually.
Native Hawaiians were far more devastating to Hawaii than modern day people.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
