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Interesting the Queen even moved on: Tho' for a moment it cost me a pang of pain for my people it was only momentary, for the present has a hope for the future of my people. - former Queen Liliʻuokalani in her diary, Sunday, September 2, 1900
But what strikes me about this fantasy, is pretty much every sovereignty movement is led by mostly nut cases....
We've got....
The Aboriginal Lands of Hawaiian Ancestry (ALOHA) - who seek reparations (not going to happen)
Office of Hawaiian Affairs (enough said - they clearly can't get their act together)
Ka Lahui - at least anybody and join and be a citizen
Nation of Hawaii - Whose leader has been to prison, nice!
Kekuni Blaisdell - who seems to think Hawaii was stolen.....yeah, that argument will work out
Hayden Burgess - at least his bandwagon includes everyone, not just Native Hawaiians
Hawaiian Kingdom - another group whose leader went to prison
Hawaiian Kingdom Government - They've even got a "Queen"
Nou Ke Akua Ke Aupuni O Hawaii - They've even got a "King"
And my favorite - Kingdom for Independent Oahu - they've also got a "Queen" and seek an apology, not from the US, but from the descendants of Kamehameha, ha ha
Yet another question you did not answer. Oh well, I am not surprised.
Ok, let's try this. You obviously do not like the way Hawaii came to be part of the United States. Would you be happier now if the United States had done things King Kamehameha style and went from island to island murdering people? Maybe the United States should have conquered the Hawaiians in the same way the original inhabitants of Hawaii, the people from the Marquesas were conquered by the Tahitians. Then would you be happy?
What do you mean going from island to island like King Kamehameha style and killing people? You didn't have to, the kanaka moali were pretty much decimated population wise by european and westerner plages, but it was an accident.
Don't you find it funny that you guys are always dictating whats right and correct for other people, countries and the world?
I find it funny you actually wrote that - I don't dictate anything, nor does OpenD, or McFrosty, or Jonah....
The people who live in Hawaii dictate what is correct and right for the people who live here (which you don't by the way). The people who live in Hawaii are free to elect representatives to the national and local offices to put forth sovereignty agendas - and as someone who lives here, the people who live here don't have even the faintest appetite for that.
Ok mr local! (hey your a rich white guy right?). So who is responsible for the Gentrification of our home? Or the eviromental disasters in Hawai'i? Or the cost of living going thru the roof? Is it the kanaka moali and the locals? Hmmm wait its got to be all of us because we are one earth! Wait hold on the last i checked the kanaka moali and locals don't have the money, if they did then wouldn't they own the politics, resorts and big corperations etc? So who really needs to make the most effort to change for the betterment of our aina, communities and people.
Come talk to me when your solution to making things better isnt only whats good for your lifestyle.
And my favorite - Kingdom for Independent Oahu - they've also got a "Queen" and seek an apology, not from the US, but from the descendants of Kamehameha, ha ha
This is certainly an interesting group. And I would think it throws the whole argument over whom the US should give Hawaii to (if the US gives it to anyone).
Here we have a legitimate claim by the kanaka maoli decendants of Kahahana, the Alii Aimoku of Oahu, who ruled over Oahu prior to the violent overthrow and unjust theft of the Island of Oahu by Kamehameha 1.
From their perspective, Kam 1 was a thief and terrorist who stole their land.
So, should the US give the Islands to the decendants of the tyrant and thief Kam 1 ? Or would it be more honorable and just to give Oahu back to Queen Patricia Aupoliana-Rodie, the 25 Alii Aimoku of Oahu ? It sounds to me that her claim trumps Kam 1 decendents claim because her decendents ruled Oahu before the decendents of Kam 1.
Make all the fun or lightheartness about this issue you want. But if it was happening to america and you, there would be WW3, we would have the UN already taking action and you would be moaning and screaming to the world.
Hell our country invades other countries based on accusations of wrongdoing. But thats not the standards we hold for ourselves.
To be clear, I'm not opposed to kanaka maoli establishing a monarchy over kanaka maoli people, on their reserved kanaka maoli lands, if that's what they want. I don't even mind if they settle their election runoffs with war clubs, if they want to get really traditional.
I'm not sure if you realize that the "reserved kanaka maoli lands" are comprised of both the "Ceded Lands Trust" (approximately 1,431,000 acres) and the "Hawaiian Home Lands Trust" (approximately 200,000 acres), which is approximately 40% off all of the land in Hawaiʻi. Moreover, the acreage in these trusts is non-contiguous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenD
I just don't want anyone to buy into the delusion that a monarchy of any sort will somehow magically displace the US Democracy in Hawai'i, no matter how much huffing and puffing goes on by the advocates and their dozens of followers. It's a naive fantasy. Won't happen.
Some folks would argue that the United States "democracy" is actually a "plutocracy." Plutocracy in America
Great Britain, Sweden, the Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Spain, Thailand, and several other countries have proven that "monarchies" and "democracy" aren't mutually exclusive.
Interesting the Queen even moved on: Tho' for a moment it cost me a pang of pain for my people it was only momentary, for the present has a hope for the future of my people. - former Queen Liliʻuokalani in her diary, Sunday, September 2, 1900
But what strikes me about this fantasy, is pretty much every sovereignty movement is led by mostly nut cases....
We've got....
The Aboriginal Lands of Hawaiian Ancestry (ALOHA) - who seek reparations (not going to happen)
Office of Hawaiian Affairs (enough said - they clearly can't get their act together)
Ka Lahui - at least anybody and join and be a citizen
Nation of Hawaii - Whose leader has been to prison, nice!
Kekuni Blaisdell - who seems to think Hawaii was stolen.....yeah, that argument will work out
Hayden Burgess - at least his bandwagon includes everyone, not just Native Hawaiians
Hawaiian Kingdom - another group whose leader went to prison
Hawaiian Kingdom Government - They've even got a "Queen"
Nou Ke Akua Ke Aupuni O Hawaii - They've even got a "King"
And my favorite - Kingdom for Independent Oahu - they've also got a "Queen" and seek an apology, not from the US, but from the descendants of Kamehameha, ha ha
Actually, some of those groups are pretty much "defunct." (e.g. "ALOHA" and "Ka Lāhui Hawai'i"). Moreover, Kekuni Blaisdell headed a group called "Ka Pākaukau ("the table") and Hayden Burgess (aka "Pōkā Laenui") headed the "Institute for the Advancement of Hawaiian Affairs." I'm surprised that you somehow managed to mangle the details after pulling the names from Wikipedia, but at least you got them in the same order.
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. So who is responsible for the Gentrification of our home?
Hmmm wait its got to be all of us because we are one earth!
Wait hold on the last i checked the kanaka moali and locals don't have the money
, if they did then wouldn't they own the politics, resorts and big corperations etc? So who really needs to make the most effort to change for the betterment of our aina, communities and people.
