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Actually, these issues were explored in detail by Rona Tamiko Halualani in her 2002 book, "In The Name Of Hawaiians: Native Identities and Cultural Politics," and J. Kēhaulani Kauanui in her 2008 book, "Hawaiian Blood: Colonialism and the Politics of Sovereignty and Indigeneity." Unfortunately, Halualani and Kauanui are based in the continental U.S. and few folks in the Hawaiian sovereignty movement are aware of their work.
Yeah, well, as a $62 textbook on Amazon, I don't imagine a lot of people have read Halaulani's book unless it was assigned reading for a class. And yikes! $84.95 for Kauanui's book in hardcover.
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One of the things that's lacking among many of the leaders in the Hawaiian sovereignty movement is a well-read and wide-ranging education. Some arenʻt particularly well-versed in Hawaiian history (beyond the "propaganda" that they've read concerning the overthrow of Liliʻuokalani). Some aren't particularly fluent in ʻōlelo Hawaiʻi, which tends to limit them to "Westernized" patterns of thinking. And, others seem to be in a hurry, failing to realize that "mental decolonization" might be a necessary prerequisite before true Hawaiian sovereignty can actually occur.
Thanks. That confirms my own offhand observations. Plus some of the leaders seem more deeply invested in serving their own personal agendas than the overall good of the people, and at least one is a known fraud and felon. It's the simplistic sloganeering I object to most, especially when it seems likely to mislead the kanaka maoli people. On the other hand I think the move to try to bring the matter up in the International Court of Law is a more sophisticated con that seems to have the potential to hoover up more cash from the better educated. I mean, it sounds so grown up 'n' stuff.
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If you have enough money and are in good enough health, you can always undergo "limb lengthening" and "facial reconstruction" surgeries.
Trust me, I gave an example of something as completely and totally hopeless as I could think of as a benchmark for something with better chances of happening than independence for "the world's largest unsinkable battleship."
Yeah, well, as a $62 textbook on Amazon, I don't imagine a lot of people have read Halaulani's book unless it was assigned reading for a class. And yikes! $84.95 for Kauanui's book in hardcover.
Thanks. That confirms my own offhand observations. Plus some of the leaders seem more deeply invested in serving their own personal agendas than the overall good of the people, and at least one is a known fraud and felon. It's the simplistic sloganeering I object to most, especially when it seems likely to mislead the kanaka maoli people. On the other hand I think the move to try to bring the matter up in the International Court of Law is a more sophisticated con that seems to have the potential to hoover up more cash from the better educated. I mean, it sounds so grown up 'n' stuff.
Sadly, many folks assume that kānaka maoli that have a Ph.D. in any field from any university are "experts" when it comes to various issues surrounding Hawaiian sovereignty. Or worse yet, kānaka maoli that honed their group organizational skills in prison and barely managed to obtain a G.E.D. are viewed by some as "experts" on Hawaiian sovereignty. As for folks trying to bring up Hawaiian sovereignty issues at the UN's International Court of Justice right now, it's akin to someone that has a basic understanding of arithmetic attempting to do calculus.
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Originally Posted by OpenD
Trust me, I gave an example of something as completely and totally hopeless as I could think of as a benchmark for something with better chances of happening than independence for "the world's largest unsinkable battleship."
Although Japan's "Yamato-class" battleships were the largest and most powerful battleships ever constructed by any nation and were rumored to be "unsinkable," they were sunk by much smaller and weaker "carrier-based" aircraft and submarines.
"We won" is Universal", and didn't King Kamehameha employ that same mindset when he conquered the various tribes etc.,
My ancestors, following Hirohito, employed the self-same ideology as they swept their brand of "winning" across Nanking and much of the Pacific basin.
Winning is important and not, as you assert, "so western". I suspect that your opposition to "winning" is not so much a reflection of your attitude towards the mindset, but, rather, that you DIDN"T.
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Originally Posted by Yoshi-san
You almost sound like you are in favor of the disaster that it would be (for all parties concerned - especially the Hawaiians) if such an ill-advise change was made. The effects would be disaster. Hawaii has a hard time "governing" itself as a state. As a nation it would be in tatters in short order.
By that same line of reasoning, the "land of your ancestors" would've been better off if the United States had annexed it after World War II.
Compare and contrast Japanese and Hawaiian history and explain why an independent Hawai'i would "fail" while an independent Japan managed to survive.
Quality of Culture, Size/resources, Japan is not saturated with "Laid Back" as a motto and way of life, but is, instead saturated with industriousness and willingness/zeal to excel. The only thing Hawaii has going for it geopolitically is that it IS a State.
Agreed. And Japan also, like Hawai'i, has little natural resources of its own, but Japan was/is highly industrialized, which allowed it to import raw materials and convert them into manufactured goods for sale around the world, whereas Hawai'i has little industrialization and bringing raw materials and fuel for energy so far from the mainland drives up the cost of goods that might be manufactured.
Another issue is the difference in the place education occupies in each country's culture. In Japan education is highly regarded, and it's normal for students to work very hard to achieve high marks and excel. It's... ummm... not that way in Hawai'i.
He murdered all the chiefs who opposed him by bashing in their skulls. It may not have been strictly illegal, but it certainly wasn't polite.
One thing that gets overlooked... nay, regularly misrepresented by the sovereignty activists... the US Government did not overthrow the Hawaiian monarchy, and it wasn't a violent overthrow.
Yes, the US supported the overthrow by a group of plantation owners who were concerned about instability in the area and wanted to protect their investments, etc., by sending Marines in dress blue uniforms ashore to bivouac in the park and march down the street in front of the palace as a show of force to discourage violence. There was an implied threat, but there was no combat (one person was shot, but not by the marines, and the circumstances are not clear). Then the treaties for annexation as a territory were made with the new government.
And yes, it was all underhanded and extra-legal and unfortunate in many ways, but you know, 120 years and more than 1.35 million additional residents later, as a US State it's an established reality with a lot of mass. Unfortunately it doesn't appear that those first voyagers from the Marchesa Islands are ever gonna get the Hawaiian islands back from the Tahitians that overthrew them.
And it should now be obvious to even the most short-sighted observer is that the only way Hawai'i will become independent today is by an Act of Congress, signed by the US President. All the rest is folly.
The Apology Res? POUS.... just cause it wasn't violent, it still don't make it legal
"He murdered all the chiefs " again..... what laws did he break? what treaties did he violate?
Location: not sure, but there's a hell of a lot of water around here!
2,682 posts, read 7,570,329 times
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Originally Posted by Yoshi-san
I have no other account. Just this one. You are in error and most offensive in demeanor. Perhaps YOU are the offender as you, how do you say, protest too much!!!!
Because the other accounts all read as 'Not a member'. Just go to some other website and bestow your infinite wisdom upon them.
Have you guys ever thought why the ancient hawaiians had a system of kapu? With the exception of the royalty kapu system, what was the purpose of kapu besides law & order? (Non Native & Hawai'ians please)
Agreed. And Japan also, like Hawai'i, has little natural resources of its own, but Japan was/is highly industrialized, which allowed it to import raw materials and convert them into manufactured goods for sale around the world, whereas Hawai'i has little industrialization and bringing raw materials and fuel for energy so far from the mainland drives up the cost of goods that might be manufactured.
In 1810, Japan and Hawaiʻi were relatively equal in terms of "industrialization." What occurred in Japan starting in 1868 that changed the pace of industrialization? And what prevented a similar event from taking place in Hawaiʻi?
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Originally Posted by OpenD
Another issue is the difference in the place education occupies in each country's culture. In Japan education is highly regarded, and it's normal for students to work very hard to achieve high marks and excel. It's... ummm... not that way in Hawai'i.
Education is highly regarded in traditional Hawaiian culture as well. Apparently, you've never heard the Hawaiian motto, "Kūlia i ka nuʻu" ("strive to reach the summit"). Moreover, Kānaka maoli (usually aliʻi) that had the financial wherewithal often sent their children abroad to the United States and Europe for higher education during the 19th Century.
Quality of Culture, Size/resources, Japan is not saturated with "Laid Back" as a motto and way of life, but is, instead saturated with industriousness and willingness/zeal to excel. The only thing Hawaii has going for it geopolitically is that it IS a State.
Fail. All you've mentioned are "cultural stereotypes," when you were supposed to compare and contrast Japanese and Hawaiian history. Surely, you know something about the Tokugawa bakufu and the effect of its sakoku policy.
I am certainly impressed with your proficiency with Wiki..
I'll summarize, Japan is a massive success, Hawaii, pre-colonization/statehood, not so much.
Another thing, bucko, I don't take assignments from you, so there is nothing I am "supposed" to do. Got it?
The culture summarized by the Motto "Laid Back" won't go far if it has to provide the sorts of protections, relations etc., required of a Nation, with an aggressive "rest-of-the-world". You only get to "lay back" when you are in the big box with a hinged lid. Prior to that, the order of the day is action.
You are free, now, to go back to Wiki and dig for more tidbits.
It looks like you've proven that you're the previously-banned "22-250," "Jeffington," etc.
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