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Old 08-02-2010, 01:58 AM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,613 posts, read 11,551,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratford, Ct. Resident View Post
Simple solution: Don't go to the hospital! And then, when your dead because you were too "modest", the mortician will view your formerly modest body.
OP better put it in their will what gender they will accept for a mortician then = ) Best add you don't want your body examined by a coroner of the wrong gender as well.
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Old 08-02-2010, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,628 posts, read 18,538,734 times
Reputation: 6733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Modest Woman View Post
...As for intimate procedures, I will only go to female doctors/midwives. If I ever have knee or hand surgery, I will not take all of my clothes off and I will demand that they stay on...
Well I hope you never need knee or hand surgery - because no reputable doctor is going to do it in a non-sterile field. You have heard of infections - yes?

Frankly - I think you are very ignorant about medicine. I just had an "intimate" procedure done about 3 weeks ago. Removal of 2 large pelvic cysts through my vagina. In a regular operating room. At the Mayo Clinic JAX. Now I did have a female surgeon (chosen on the basis of her credentials - not her sex). But the people in the OR - it was as crowded as a movie theater. Anesthesiologist (male) - two anesthesia residents (one male one female). Probably a couple of GYN surgery residents. And others as well (guess I'll find out who they are when I get a copy of the bill ). Note that the first thing they do before surgery like this is they shave all your "intimate" hair off - to keep the operating field visible and sterile (they did that when I was "out" - should I be mortfied?).

Post-op - well that was dignified and modest . The surgical equivalent of a towel up my vagina - a foley catheter (that's inserted to drain urine) - a bunch of IV lines going in through the needle in my hand - machines wrapped around my legs like bellows - so my circulation stayed ok. Now mind you - all of this is designed to make sure I don't bleed post-op - or have something like a blood clot or stroke. Flat on my back for 12 hours - then up and out and home the next day almost as good as new (except for the 8 week post-op "have to take it easy" recovery period while the wounds heal and the stitches dissolve).

Anyway - I got great medical care from my attending physicians - and probably taught some residents something new (at Mayo - older residents participate in procedures - younger residents watch - it's the old medical expression - "see one - do one - teach one"). I am really lucky to have such an excellent medical facility in my "backyard" - wouldn't give it up for the world. And all I ask from my doctors is they try their best (and I have very high expectations of them) to try to make me better when there's something wrong with me. Anyway - today - I am a very happy post-op patient. I don't care who saw my "what" "when". The stuff that had to be taken out is gone - with no complications. And did I mention that the pathology report showed no malignancy? Great news.

Note that I have a background in medical-legal stuff (I'm a retired lawyer). And I'd advise any doctor/hospital client of mine to refuse treatment to a patient like you assuming the doctor/hospital didn't have a legal obligation to provide it. Not worth the aggravation.

I can only assume you're very young - don't know much - and/or have never had any serious medical problems. If you've ever had a serious medical problem - you would know that the most important thing in the world is getting back to your family and your life in good shape - not worrying about any silly concepts of modesty. Robyn
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Old 08-02-2010, 06:32 PM
 
24 posts, read 178,880 times
Reputation: 33
Default Germ Argument

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robyn55 View Post
Well I hope you never need knee or hand surgery - because no reputable doctor is going to do it in a non-sterile field. You have heard of infections - yes?

It is insane for you to take your clothes off for hand or knee surgery. I understand that you do have to be naked for a gynecological surgery unfortunately. If I ever was to have a gynecological surgery, I would demand an all female team. I would rather to suffer pain than having surgery.

One man who had a wrist reconstruction surgery took his shirt off and kept his pants on. He boldly told the nurses and doctor they better not take his pants off during surgery. He put a notch in his belt so he would know whether they ignored his wishes. The good news is his wishes were respected and the surgery went well. The germs off his pants didn't affect his surgery at all.

One of my friends got a terrible MRSA infection from having knee replacement surgery. The reason he got the infection was at least one of the nurses or doctors didn't wash their hands. Staph infections are often acquired in hospitals because some doctors and nurses are lazy about washing their hands. They often go from patient to patient without washing hands. Most people didn't have staph infections before they went to the hospital.

Hospital floors are often contaminated with many germs.In many cases, medical gowns are probably not much cleaner than street clothes. Think about how patients have to change into medical gowns in changing rooms that are full of germs. Also many patients don't wash their hands before putting on the medical gowns so their contaminated hands touch the medical gown. Can you guarantee that the person who takes the medical gowns out of the dryer at the hospital has clean hands?

I am going to post how one lady who has been educated about germs in medical settings responded to the germ argument below. She and her husband have had some bad things happen to them in the medical industry due to modesty.

What another lady said:

Operating rooms can be kept sterile. What that entails is *everything* brought into the room first be sterilized, including shoes. Floors *could be* sterilized, but, in fact, are disinfected.

Hospital gowns given to put on in the changing area or a hospital room are not sterilized. They are merely *clean*. Normally, for outpatient surgery, a person is told to shower before coming in, and wear clean clothes. Even if they were sterile, as soon as they got into a nonsterile environment, such as the changing room or the hospital room, they would no longer be sterile. However, in cases of emergency or urgent surgery, one does not have the option of showering and wearing clean clothes ahead of time. For instance, last year when I had surgery to put a rod in a badly fractured leg, I certainly did not shower right before going to the hospital! My clothes had about a day's wear on them.

The surgery I had in October was scheduled in advance, so I did have the instructions to shower and wear clean clothes. It was the same as another surgery I had years ago which was planned in advance, and I kept on my cotton underwear and cotton socks. I'm not sure what the importance of cotton is, but they insist upon it. This is even though most surgical uniforms are made of a cotton/polyester blend.

Skin simply CANNOT be sterilized. It can be disinfected, as they often do around a surgical incision. But, there are germs on the patient's skin. To remove them would kill the patient.

Also, as soon as they begin surgery, everything is no longer sterile, as the patient's body is not sterile, plus the reason for the surgery may be specifically to remove, clean, debrid (scrape off), some part of the body. For instance, if one is getting an appendectomy, by definition they will be cutting into the digestive tract, nearly always into an organ known to be infected!

There are PLENTY of airborn pathogenic germs in the air in hospitals! Even if everything were brought into the operating room sterile, it would not stay that way long if air from the hospital were circulated through without sterilizing it. That is done in cleanrooms. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleanroom The point is that the technology exists, and works. It's just that hospitals do not use it, preferring their own definition of "clean" and "sterile". I suppose this means that computer memory and drives are more "important" than are hospital patients. Or, taking my dollar-analysis into this realm, if a computer component fails because of contamination it is returned to the company to be fixed, replaced, and the company may be liable for consequential damages to the customer. All of these cost the computer company money, and they go to great lengths to minimize its occurrence. If a patient gets ill or infected from a contamination during surgery, that just brings them back for more treatments, medications, and surgeries. They make more money.

People will be in the operating room breathing. This too makes the air unsterile. The doctors, nurses, anesthesiologist, and the patient all breathe. The more people, the higher the chances of them breathing a harmful bacteria, germ, virus, or whatever else. The people in the operating room wear these little paper or cloth masks which were shown to be ineffective for preventing Spanish Flu, or even colds or seasonal flu. It will keep droplets of spittle off of the patient. People in the cleanrooms wear a special suit with headgear. In higher-class cleanrooms, they even have their own air supply, and filter and ventilation system - the same as a suit worn undersea or in space.

There are larger numbers of dangerous pathogens in hospitals. Quite simply, that is where sick people are. They HAVE such things as MRSA, strep, staph (including MRSA), antibiotic-resistant bacteria of all sorts. I mentioned it before because those are not the sorts of things you want your newborn infant exposed to!

Not to mention the number of medical and surgical equipment that is "outsourced" to be cleaned and sterilized, and sometimes comes back visually dirty. Is it really so difficult for them to clean the instruments, use the hospital sterilizer (hardly more than a dishwasher really - that just has a hotter dry cycle)?
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Old 08-02-2010, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Saint Petersburg, FL
1,881 posts, read 3,215,877 times
Reputation: 16531
I'm curious. What would you do if you were dying? Like the woman who posted earlier who was having an asthma attack? Or like me, when I was rushed to the hospital while bleeding out postpartum? The first thing they did was cut my robe off me. I was just this side of shock at that point, but even in retrospect, I'm glad they did! If they hadn't, I would not be here typing this out right now.

So, would you refuse medical transport in favor of dying? Or is lack of modesty OK in some circumstances and not others? I'm genuinely wondering.
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Old 08-02-2010, 09:11 PM
 
Location: Northern NH
4,551 posts, read 10,465,330 times
Reputation: 3807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Modest Woman View Post
There are people of different religious backgrounds who feel strongly about modesty in medical settings. I've heard of atheists, Christians, Jews, and muslims who feel strongly about modesty in medical settings. One atheist's husband was stripped naked for hand surgery. The second time he had surgery on another hand, he was not stripped naked because the wife demanded that this not happen again.

I am a Christian who was puzzled as a kid when I found out my mom went to a male gynecologist. I was taught that you were not supposed to be naked in front of the opposite sex. I didn't get it how it could be okay for a male doctor to see private parts of a woman who he was not married to. I started questioning my mom. She ignored me. But when I grew up as an adult, she started listening to me. She has not been to a male gynecologist in about 11 years. She feels that male gynecologists are indeed wrong now. She said she would have never thought about if it I had not brought it to her attention. When I made a commitment to True Love Waits (to wait to have sex until marriage) as a teenager, I also thought about how I was never going to let another man except for my future husband to see certain parts of my body. A male gynecologist is a man and not morally above other men.

I recently contacted True Love Waits and one of the co-founders agrees with me about male gynecologists being wrong. I also contacted Leslie Ludy who wrote "When God Writes Your Love Story" with her husband 6 years ago. She said that she felt it was a cultural blind spot and that many things the medical industry does violate what God intended. She said that we are taught to not question anything the medical industry does. Leslie Ludy had a midwife deliver two of her babies. As for intimate procedures, I will only go to female doctors/midwives. If I ever have knee or hand surgery, I will not take all of my clothes off and I will demand that they stay on.

I am really upset about how many patients' wishes have been violated in regard to modesty regardless of their religious backgrounds. I think that all modest people should be able to get their wishes in medical settings.

There is honestly no reason for medical students who are going to become cardiologists, ENTs, optometrists, etc. to do pelvic exams on women anyway. They are not going to do pelvic exams on women in their future practices anyway.

There are so many unnecessary pelvic exams done. I found an article by a Mayo Clinic doctor that said that pap smears are often unnecessary for virgin women because cervical cancer is usually caused by HPV (a STD).

You should Google Citizens Against Medical Rape and you will see some horrible pelvic exams that were done on women without their consent. Women have the right to refuse them. Patients can refuse any procedures they don't want period.
I think you need to contact a therapist because something isn't right about you.
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Old 08-02-2010, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,417 posts, read 32,608,882 times
Reputation: 15560
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aptor hours View Post
I think you need to contact a therapist because something isn't right about you.
You called it.
Everyone in my immediate family excepting myself is in the medical field, I forwarded this thread to my sister, a pediatrician, and my mother, a nurse.
They found the medical ignorance of the OP appalling and astounding.
My late father, who had a doctorate in pharmacology, had a charming saying that he used in situations like this.
"You can cure everything but ignorance."
Theres a LOT of ignorance out there, unfortunately.
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Old 08-02-2010, 09:45 PM
 
24 posts, read 178,880 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggi07 View Post
I'm curious. What would you do if you were dying? Like the woman who posted earlier who was having an asthma attack? Or like me, when I was rushed to the hospital while bleeding out postpartum? The first thing they did was cut my robe off me. I was just this side of shock at that point, but even in retrospect, I'm glad they did! If they hadn't, I would not be here typing this out right now.

So, would you refuse medical transport in favor of dying? Or is lack of modesty OK in some circumstances and not others? I'm genuinely wondering.
This is a tough issue, but I will respond to you about my thoughts on this issue. Let's not focus on surgeries that are planned in advanced, routine exams such as pelvic exams, etc. I have already shared my thoughts about this.

Unfortunately, modesty has to be thrown out sometimes when it comes to life threatening situations. I think it is very important to save a person's life. I know that you have to take shirt off a woman if she is on the verge of dying because she cannot breathe or if a woman had a heart attack. Most heart surgeons are male. A lady's heart is so close to her breasts. I hope someday they can invent something to cover at least some of the women's breasts for heart surgery. I know they can put some drapes on certain parts of the breasts, but most of the breasts are exposed. Male patients don't worry about being topless of course. I do feel that medical professionals should try their best to protect people's modesty even in emergencies. For example, there's no need to remove the underwear of a person who cannot breathe due to a horrible asthma attack. Their private parts have nothing to do with why they cannot breathe. I feel that female nurses should try to put some drapes on a lady's breasts to prevent males from seeing them. I absolutely don't support non-consensual pelvic exams on heart attack victims.

As for postparum bleeding, I think that every hospital should have at least one female ob/gyn on call at all times to help out with postparum bleeding. There are several hospitals in the US including 3 in Oklahoma, Indiana, and North Carolina that have all female ob/gyns and no male ob/gyns at all. I don't feel that men belong to ob/gyn field at all. I think ob/gyn should be restricted to women.

To get back to the subject of saving people's lives. I think it is important for a person's life to be saved even if she/he loses some modesty. She/he will feel violated and the sexual part of his/her marriage may not be as sacred as it used to be. But it is best that the person didn't die and live. Think about how a man who has run into a lot of marathons and loves surfboarding feels if he got attacked by a shark and his legs were injured badly and the doctors told him that he will probably not live unless his legs were amputated. It would be best for him to let his legs be amputated even though he will lose the ability to run in marathons or surfboard. His life won't be the same. I am sure that most people here will agree that it is best for him to have his legs amputated and live. He will have to walk on his hands or stay in a wheelchair (not the best thing).
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Old 08-02-2010, 09:55 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,417 posts, read 32,608,882 times
Reputation: 15560
Quote:
Originally Posted by Modest Woman View Post
I think ob/gyn should be restricted to women.
This smacks of sexism....lets take it one step further......
No man should EVER be allowed to have anything to do with any kind of plastic reconstuctive surgery that involves a womans breasts, nor any male oncologists be allowed to specialize in breast cancer. (oh, the horror!) Or male pharmacists thsat might fill a females prescriptions, or male nurses that might come into contact with women!
And on down the slippery slope it leads.
You DO realize how ridiculous this all sounds to anyone with an education in any medical field?
Medieval nonsense, might as well get the leeches and bleeding cups out now.
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Old 08-02-2010, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Greenwood Village, Colorado
2,185 posts, read 4,265,436 times
Reputation: 1536
Quote:
Originally Posted by kshe95girl View Post
This smacks of sexism....lets take it one step further......
No man should EVER be allowed to have anything to do with any kind of plastic reconstuctive surgery that involves a womans breasts, nor any male oncologists be allowed to specialize in breast cancer. (oh, the horror!) Or male pharmacists thsat might fill a females prescriptions, or male nurses that might come into contact with women!
And on down the slippery slope it leads.
You DO realize how ridiculous this all sounds to anyone with an education in any medical field?
Medieval nonsense, might as well get the leeches and bleeding cups out now.

I think there's some physiological problems here.
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Old 08-02-2010, 10:03 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,417 posts, read 32,608,882 times
Reputation: 15560
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cupcake77 View Post
I think there's some physiological problems here.
Physiological or psychological?
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