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I don't know that any food "deserves" to be a separate food group, and I thought that was a funny way to put it. Food doesn't deserve or not deserve.
My thought was: As long as there are going to be food groups for the purpose of promoting health, there should be some sound scientific reasoning behind it. That being the case, animal protein shouldn't be listed as a group.
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Dairy is probably a separate food group, yes, because it's an industry with influence in the government like most industries, but it's also a separate and distinct type of food to the point that some people cannot tolerate it, and it makes a difference in the food choices of at least one major religion.
As a sidebar, I read an interesting article last year about a study on why the Dutch are the tallest people on the planet (I am a six-foot-tall woman of Dutch descent, so it caught my eye), and it's because they consume more cheese than other people.
I wonder how their cholesterol is, though. As I noted above, when I went vegetarian, I started eating more cheese in lieu of meat, and my cholesterol, which had never been high before, zoomed up to about 240. Now I limit my dairy intake.
I'm always amazed by tall women because they are so rare. I saw a really tall woman in my area who looked to be at least 6' 6" tall, possibly 7 feet tall. I saw her in my local library and in a local store. She had to stoop down to walk through a high archway in the store. And in the library she looks down to see the books on the top shelf, while most people have to look up. Then I saw a teenage girl who was about the same height so I assume she's the woman's daughter. She was in a parade about 4 or five years ago. She was the lead person with baton (band-leader) in a marching high school band. She was standing up as straight as could be and was very impressive. I later saw her in a local supermarket and she was looking down at items on the very top shelf. (Employees use a ladder to get to those items.)
I have a book that tells the story about how the Dutch were once short, not tall. If I remember correctly, it tells why they were short and why they got to be tall. But I don't have it with me at this time. I will read it when I get a chance, to refresh my memory, and I'll let you know what the reasoning was. I believe it did have to do with the availability of food.
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True about the protein thing. When I was vegetarian, a friend said to me "but how do you get your protein?" I explained that even though I got some from eggs and dairy, plant foods also provide enough protein for the needs of the human body and that we've just been marketed to believe that we need protein from meat sources.
And when I got done explaining that, she said, "I still just don't understand how you get enough protein." Sometimes there is no point.
Vegetarians can get a lot of protein from eggs and dairy, so it shouldn't have been a big surprise. What if you tried to be a vegan? Perhaps you would have to eat a larger amount of beans to make up the difference.
I'm mostly pescatarian, but I cheat & eat Bison, or Lamb ~6x/yr.
I do eat more dairy than is optimal, but use skim milk, lowfat butter, & cheeses...I won't ditch dairy altogether....like it too much.
I eat lots of egg whites for protein, but only ~6 yolks/month. Boxed egg whites prices didn't go up like whole eggs have.
I dont buy organic because the prices are too high...I can afford it, but choose not to.
Fish is $$$, & cheaper canned seafood is high-sodium. I try to balance both. I eat: salmon, clams, octopus, oysters, mussels, shrimp, & sushi (sashimi)
I try to keep carbs complex...whole grain bread, beans, nuts, oatmeal, cherios...not much pasta.
I've been eating like this for 10 years because I like vegees & fish, & it keeps my lipid profile in check.
I take 8 supplements/day, & average 2 hrs aerobic/day.
My physicals yield good results, but I'll keep trying to improve in all of these areas.
I drink high-alkaline alcohol, no sugary stuff, & I smoke an occasional cigar...some day I'll quit both.
I've enjoyed reading all the posts in this thread. I think some lean natural unprocessed meat is okay.
Since my diet is odd, I eat alone a lot, which is fine by me.
Not that odd. Almost sound like me. I haven’t had a cigar in over a year though, and have no desire to ever have one again. I do drink alcohol.
Quality canned sardines are very low in sodium by the way. But quite expensive for the amount you get.
I’ve found Sprouts often has some pretty good sales on Sockeye salmon.
Publix is weird: they have cases of frozen octopus in their back freezer — it’s never out on display for some reason. You have to ask for it. It surprisingly wasn’t too pricey either.
Vegetarians can get a lot of protein from eggs and dairy, so it shouldn't have been a big surprise. What if you tried to be a vegan? Perhaps you would have to eat a larger amount of beans to make up the difference.
Protein isn’t an issue, as you can get it quite easily from plant sources. The primary concern is Vitamin B12, which is an animal byproduct. Unless you eat copious amounts of seaweed, you’re likely going to be deficient. Which is why lots of vegan products are fortified with it, and/or consumption of supplements is encouraged to make up for the deficiency.
You enjoy eating a lot of meat. That's great. You're still an omnivore.
Just like a human who chooses the vegan lifestyle is still an omnivore.
Just like someone who eats only a vegetarian diet is still an omnivore.
Vegan: the name of a food and lifestyle choice.
Vegetarian: the name of a food choice.
There is no name for people who eat only meat, because it's not a food CHOICE or lifestyle CHOICE that enough people choose to warrant giving it a name.
All three - are choices that omnivorous humans can make.
There's also pescatarian - just as omnivorous as vegans.
Lacto-octo vegetarians = omnivores.
Carnivore, omnivore, herbivore: biological designations involving the efficient digestion and absorption of food.
Everything else: individual preferences and choices.
Absolutely, but fruits and vegetables (and DEFINITELY grains) were secondary choices to animal products, ingested in times of need. There are numerous documented societies going back hundreds of thousands of years that have proven this.
The explosion of brain growth in human species occurred due to meat consumption, not plants. Our offspring require animal proteins and fats to properly develop, not broccoli and oranges.
"So it goes with vegetarianism and longevity. It’s absolutely true that vegetarians live longer (at least among Seventh Day Adventists, the target group of the study). In fact, in this study, vegetarians live six to nine years longer, which is a huge effect. But vegetarians are also more likely to exercise, be married, smoke less and drink less alcohol—all factors that also contribute to a longer life. The actual causal relationship between becoming vegetarian and living longer is unclear, and is certainly smaller than the correlation might seem to suggest."
Selective research. They singled out Seventh-Day Adventists, and they themselves go on to say that the people they selected were less likely to be smokers and/or drinkers.
Perhaps you could use the entire population of the United States as a control group. The average person in the U.S. is overweight and eats about twice their daily requirement of protein. And the U.S. is not exactly a healthy country. https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0505143829.htm
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For what it's worth, I went to an SDA school. I worked in the cafeteria. The vast majority of people who ate the stuff we served were overweight/bent out of shape.
You criticize the university study as not being scientific enough and then you expect me to accept your anecdote?
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What's ironic is that the 5 countries with the longest longevity in the world have some rather meat-heavy diets:
Monaco.
Japan.
Singapore.
San Marino.
Iceland.
How about at least providing a link. Otherwise that's just another anecdote.
Last edited by LongevitySeeker; 07-18-2022 at 11:08 AM..
The average person is loading themselves up with processed food. If you’re attributing obesity to protein while ignoring that fact, YOU are the industry shill.
Some people say that you crave what you have an allergic reaction to, so for example dairy is indicated in many allergic reactions in asthmatics and I know from personal experience that my asthma is worse when I eat dairy. Cheese is known to be mucous-forming which cannot be good for asthma sufferers too.
I notice no-one has commented on the hormones and antibiotics in meat and fish products, so I guess there are some die-hard meat-eaters who just want to believe what the industry lobbyists and advertisers are telling them. But...like everyting else going wrong with the world at the moment, we need to stand up and say we are not having this messing around with the meat products in these ways. Grain which is sprayed and modified and then made into cattle or fish food is concentrated into the livers and other organs of the animal or fish eating it.
This overuse of antibiotics is possibly why there are superbacteria which defy the use of our antibiotics in hospitals. Only a very tiny amount of hormone is necessary to affect our bodies and disrupt body system pathways. We are only injuring ourselves when we ignore nature.
if you are ever bitten by a lone star tick and develop a red meat allergy possibly for life, you appreciate how good a rare hamburger or steak tasted!
Perhaps you could use the entire population of the United States as a control group. The average person in the U.S. is overweight and eats about twice their daily requirement of protein. And the U.S. is also the leader in mortality rates for heart disease.
I don't doubt that the average vegetarian/vegan is healthier than the average meat consumer. However, I think it has more to do with their general lifestyle, as mentioned in the study. A lot of them are less likely to be smokers, and pay more attention to what goes into their bodies. Eating salad and beans with a cup of herbal tea will of course yield better results than a 3-piece fried chicken, beer, and an after-meal cigarette. I don't think being vegetarian in itself is the factor here.
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Originally Posted by LongevitySeeker
You criticize the university study as not being scientific enough and then you expect me to accept your anecdote?
I mean... That was just a personal observation I made when I went to school and worked there. Lots of people living on a vegan diet, because that was what the school served. Most of them ditched that diet as soon as they got out of the SDA school system.
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Originally Posted by LongevitySeeker
How about at least providing a link. Otherwise that's just another anecdote.
I'm not against a vegetarian lifestyle. My 10 year old son does not want to consume chicken, beef, pork anymore. Will occasionally eat fish, shellfish, etc. I support his choice, but also educate him on the pros and cons of it.
1) Number one has to do with "Animal Protein And Fiber" (or total lack thereof)
2) Animal Protein and IGF-1 (Increased cancer risk)
3) Animal Protein and TMAO
4) Animal Protein and Phosphorous
5) Animal Protein, Heme Iron, And Free Radicals
6) Higher Sulfur-Containing Amino Acids And Bone Health Problems
7) Animal Protein And Cholesterol
My comment: I was a meat, dairy, and egg consumer for about 65 years. I tried different diets looking for the healthiest, even though I never needed to lose weight. I tried The Zone, Eat Right For Your Blood Type, and Paleo. Then I found the following books, "The China Study" (First & Second Edition) and became a vegan. Why? Because preventing cancer was number one on my list. But then I learned that a healthy vegan diet doesn't just help to prevent cancer, it also helps to prevent many other degenerative diseases of ageing.
Beef increases cancer odds, but that's not true of poultry. There are more studies showing that poultry and fish DECREASE chances of getting a lot of cancers, including colorectal cancer. I saw only 1 study that showed poultry may increase chances of getting 3 types of cancer, but that study was inconclusive and they couldn't say for sure it was the poultry or something else.
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