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Considering the open plan is a good 100 years old in American residential architecture, I wouldn't even say it's "faded".
yeah, OK, but those "open plans" of 100 years ago weren't just a big open barnlike room with a single counter out in the middle like having your kitchen in a gymnasium.
I say as long as HGTV keeps flogging the open plan and as long as it's cheaper and easier to build, it'll be hard to kill it.
It's a great idea for a 400 sq. ft. efficiency apartment; not so much for an actual house. But it's CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP and so the marketeers will figure out a way to make it seem like you NEED it.
What Sunbather is talking about, the Lloyd Wright houses and the like, typically have L shaped rooms, ceiling height changes, all kinds of screening elements so you don't feel like you live your whole life in the kitchen. What they're building now is one big rectangular room with a counter out in the middle.
I like open plans, to an extent. I've seen some bad ones, but for the most part, I like the flow better. I had just put in an offer on one (a 1500sf rancher with an open kitchen/dining/living that was all in a row). But it got sold to a higher bidder. Oh well. I really liked the layout. Had more than enough room for me and my wife, and room to have visitors over.
I've found that with gatherings (like birthdays, Thanksgiving, superbowl parties, etc) most people are gathering in the kitchen as things are being prepped anyhow, so the kitchen should have at least good space and flow to the dining area. And everyone not only sees the mess as it's being made (and often participates in it), but knows that messes get made in the kitchen as the food is being prepped so no one cares or judges you on it. Maybe if you have been making a mess every day for the last week and it's still sitting out when someone comes over, it might be judged, but I ALWAYS clean up the pots and pans as I go (and put stuff immediately into the dishwasher) so it's not an issue (and, the problem is not an open kitchen as a design, but a personal issue you might need to work out). And no one cares while we're prepping food at a party.
When having a superbowl party or Thanksgiving/Christmas dinner there's noise anyhow and I don't understand coming to one and then wanting to be alone in a quiet place during it. You can always borrow a bedroom if necessary. And if you're living alone or with just a spouse, what other noise are you needing to be closed off from that you can't get in a bedroom?
I live in a 1932 house where the living room is right off the front door and you can see all the way to the back of the kitchen from the front door. It's not an "open concept" but all those sight lines are there, and sound still travels as though it was open (I can hear the TV from the kitchen easily, but I can't watch it). The dishwasher, however, can barely be heard even when standing next to it, so that's not an issue. But it's so hard to fit more than a couple people into any of the rooms EXCEPT the kitchen, so that's where most people gather when visitors arrive.
As for being a feature of low end homes, here's a $2m home that has a fairly open plan in a nearly 5000sf home (lottery win right choice, right here):
yeah, OK, but those "open plans" of 100 years ago weren't just a big open barnlike room with a single counter out in the middle like having your kitchen in a gymnasium.
I say as long as HGTV keeps flogging the open plan and as long as it's cheaper and easier to build, it'll be hard to kill it.
It's a great idea for a 400 sq. ft. efficiency apartment; not so much for an actual house. But it's CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP and so the marketeers will figure out a way to make it seem like you NEED it.
What Sunbather is talking about, the Lloyd Wright houses and the like, typically have L shaped rooms, ceiling height changes, all kinds of screening elements so you don't feel like you live your whole life in the kitchen. What they're building now is one big rectangular room with a counter out in the middle.
Agreed that there is a variety of "open plan" types - and that's why I stated what I did. Unfortunately people like to lump ALL 'open plan' houses into one bucket and then only attack the lowest common denominator. Even going so far as to say that open plans don't appear in high end homes, which just completely misses the mark on a huge swath of high end custom homes in my experience.
I also think this highlights well my disagreement over the statement that it is a "bottom-up" trend. It came from forward-thinking, historically-significant architects doing custom homes. Like many 'high end' things, it then became copied from the top and value-engineered on its way down to the bottom - to the point that the low-end version of this lost the elegance that an open plan can offer. (one's personal preference notwithstanding). Naturally, by shear volume at the low end (just like fashion, home decor, etc.) most people are more exposed to the bad emulation of the original offering. This doesn't change the fact that it is absolutely a top-down trend over time. Unfortunately, mass home builders sucked all the soul, balance, and elegance out of the feeling of open concept and what we are left with is the often misguided designs people love to hate on.
Last edited by Sunbather; 03-07-2024 at 12:11 PM..
I like open plans, to an extent. I've seen some bad ones, but for the most part, I like the flow better. I had just put in an offer on one (a 1500sf rancher with an open kitchen/dining/living that was all in a row). But it got sold to a higher bidder. Oh well. I really liked the layout. Had more than enough room for me and my wife, and room to have visitors over.
I've found that with gatherings (like birthdays, Thanksgiving, superbowl parties, etc) most people are gathering in the kitchen as things are being prepped anyhow, so the kitchen should have at least good space and flow to the dining area. And everyone not only sees the mess as it's being made (and often participates in it), but knows that messes get made in the kitchen as the food is being prepped so no one cares or judges you on it. Maybe if you have been making a mess every day for the last week and it's still sitting out when someone comes over, it might be judged, but I ALWAYS clean up the pots and pans as I go (and put stuff immediately into the dishwasher) so it's not an issue (and, the problem is not an open kitchen as a design, but a personal issue you might need to work out). And no one cares while we're prepping food at a party.
When having a superbowl party or Thanksgiving/Christmas dinner there's noise anyhow and I don't understand coming to one and then wanting to be alone in a quiet place during it. You can always borrow a bedroom if necessary. And if you're living alone or with just a spouse, what other noise are you needing to be closed off from that you can't get in a bedroom?
I live in a 1932 house where the living room is right off the front door and you can see all the way to the back of the kitchen from the front door. It's not an "open concept" but all those sight lines are there, and sound still travels as though it was open (I can hear the TV from the kitchen easily, but I can't watch it). The dishwasher, however, can barely be heard even when standing next to it, so that's not an issue. But it's so hard to fit more than a couple people into any of the rooms EXCEPT the kitchen, so that's where most people gather when visitors arrive.
When I'm sitting on the couch I don't want to feel like I'm in the kitchen. When I'm in the kitchen I don't want to feel like I'm in the living room. I don't want to eat on my nice dining table all the time, and I'm not going to perch on a bar stool to eat all my meals. If you have one big room and then some bedrooms, you've only got at most one closed door between you (hiding in the bedroom) and the person in the living room playing the piano or the person in the kitchen banging dishes or both.
Those of us over 40 who have a bit of hearing loss know that having a bunch of people talking and drinking in one big open room with all hard surfaces rapidly devolves into everyone screaming at each other in attempts to converse, and the typical age-related hearing loss makes it just be one big sea of muddy noise. Can't even hear the person four feet in front of you. Maybe you like that. I don't. In ten or fifteen minutes of that I'm exhausted and ready to go home.
Some of us do things like playing musical instruments. I assure you, you do NOT want to be in the same house with me when I'm practicing with just one closed door between us. But in my house, I can get at one end and my wife at the other end and there are four closed doors between us, and she just barely hears me.
As to "high end well thought out" open plans, most of those are what I'd call "semi-open" in today's context; very few of these are seen in new houses; mostly what I see in expensive houses is the big open barn with a counter stuck in the middle and expensive kitchen appliances and finish materials; in cheap houses I see the big open barn with a counter stuch in the middle and cheap appliances and finish materials; in older houses I see where people have removed as many walls as they can and the structure still remain standing, to approach as closely as possible the big open barn with a counter stuck in the middle and appliances and finish materials cheap, mid priced, or expensive depending on the budget of the ones who tore out all the walls. Finding an original non-mutilated house over 20 years old in a nice neighborhood has become pretty much impossible these days: it's all grey inside, white and black on the outside, same same same same.
My objection to open plans is I want a big enclosed kitchen. If I have caterers I don't want them visible to the guests. I clean as I cook, but there is still a bit of a mess. I don't want it in my line of sight when I am entertaining.
The open plans can also make a space look bigger. I want large separate rooms, not the illusion of space. Formal living and formal dining room.
For me, when I say I like "open plan", what I'm referring to is Frank Lloyd Wright, Richard Neutra, Joseph Eichler.
I get your point. Near where I live is a FLW-designed home from 1908. I have toured it and can proclaim that it is absolutely livable today - with an open flow between the living room and dining room and both rooms have a view of the access to the sun room and all of those windows bringing in natural light. The exception is the kitchen, which is too small for the needs of cooks today.
I live in a 1920 craftsman bungalow with a pair of colannades/columns separating the living room and dining room - so a very open flow. Off of the living room is a pair of french doors that lead to the den and on the opposite side, a pair of french doors that lead to the sun room. Plenty of open views through the glass, but some degree of quiet and/or privacy when desired. THAT is as "open" as I want.
yeah, OK, but those "open plans" of 100 years ago weren't just a big open barnlike room with a single counter out in the middle like having your kitchen in a gymnasium.
Agree! I HATE the look of the wide open/cavernous/serves all purposes space. Unless your furniture, art, and colors are cohesive and well-placed, it can all look like an auction. Add kids and their toys to the mix and it begins to look like chaos.
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