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My objection to open plans is I want a big enclosed kitchen. If I have caterers I don't want them visible to the guests. I clean as I cook, but there is still a bit of a mess. I don't want it in my line of sight when I am entertaining.
As I mentioned, most of the time, everybody just gathers in the kitchen anyhow, and so everyone sees (and participates in) the mess as it's being made. Why people get so worried about being judge is a mystery to me.
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The open plans can also make a space look bigger. I want large separate rooms, not the illusion of space. Formal living and formal dining room.
Well, fine, if you can AFFORD a larger house that lets all the rooms be bigger. I want an Aston Maritn DB12 convertible, too. But I can afford my MINI Cooper Roadster.
It really starts sounding very elitist to complain about a smaller or inexpensive home having a practical open concept.
Last edited by elnina; 03-13-2024 at 11:34 AM..
Reason: Fixed quotation
[quote=H8PJs;66504861][quote=E-Twist;66504798]My objection to open plans is I want a big enclosed kitchen. If I have caterers I don't want them visible to the guests. I clean as I cook, but there is still a bit of a mess. I don't want it in my line of sight when I am entertaining.
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As I mentioned, most of the time, everybody just gathers in the kitchen anyhow, and so everyone sees (and participates in) the mess as it's being made. Why people get so worried about being judge is a mystery to me.
Well, fine, if you can AFFORD a larger house that lets all the rooms be bigger. I want an Aston Maritn DB12 convertible, too. But I can afford my MINI Cooper Roadster.
It really starts sounding very elitist to complain about a smaller or inexpensive home having a practical open concept.
How about a smaller or inexpensive house having a practical non-open concept?
My 1200 SF house built in 1939 was an inexpensive house for its time. The only "openness" is that the living and dining rooms are separated by an arch.
It works FANTASTICALLY. You have privacy wherever you are. Noise doesn't travel. You don't have to be in the kitchen all the time If you have a larger gathering of people, instead of putting them all into a big open barn with all hard surfaces so they all have to scream at the top of their lungs and still can't be heard, people can break off and sit down and actually, you know, CONVERSE. (In those large houses "for entertaining", people still talk in groups of say 3-6 anyway, so instead of having 10 groups of 3-6 all yammering away inh the same loud space, why not let them actually be able to hear each other?) If you want to watch something on TV you go in the back bedroom where it is. If life got away from you and there's a huge pile of dirty dishes in the sink just as your new acquaintance that you want to make a good impression on drops by, close the swinging door to the kitchen.
I fail to see how knocking out the walls in my house would make it better. I can easily see how it would make it worse.
NO, wanting quiet and privacy when you share your home with other people is NOT "elitist".
When I'm sitting on the couch I don't want to feel like I'm in the kitchen. When I'm in the kitchen I don't want to feel like I'm in the living room. I don't want to eat on my nice dining table all the time, and I'm not going to perch on a bar stool to eat all my meals. If you have one big room and then some bedrooms, you've only got at most one closed door between you (hiding in the bedroom) and the person in the living room playing the piano or the person in the kitchen banging dishes or both.
Sounds like a personal problem to me, in that you can't figure out what room you're in. Or do things that specifically annoy your SO.
And you really let things bother you that you need to get over. OMG someone is making some noise in the kitchen for a few minutes! The HORROR. I mean most of us don't have to deal with an inconsiderate musician practicing at odd hours.
[quote]Those of us over 40 who have a bit of hearing loss know that having a bunch of people talking and drinking in one big open room with all hard surfaces rapidly devolves into everyone screaming at each other in attempts to converse, and the typical age-related hearing loss makes it just be one big sea of muddy noise. Can't even hear the person four feet in front of you. Maybe you like that. I don't. In ten or fifteen minutes of that I'm exhausted and ready to go home.[/quolte]
Never had that problem in any of the homes with open concept I've visited and I'm over 60. But maybe you like making sure than no one can fit in your living room so you don't have to deal with the noise of visitors at a party. I like a home full of happy sounds and happy people at a family gathering (or when I have friends over to play pool or watch the game). No one yells at each other. And there's no echoing.
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Some of us do things like playing musical instruments. I assure you, you do NOT want to be in the same house with me when I'm practicing with just one closed door between us. But in my house, I can get at one end and my wife at the other end and there are four closed doors between us, and she just barely hears me.
Do you usually practice during family gatherings or when friends are over watching the big game? As a trumpet player myself, I know *I* don't. Ignoring everyone to go off and practiced just seems rude.
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As to "high end well thought out" open plans, most of those are what I'd call "semi-open" in today's context; very few of these are seen in new houses; mostly what I see in expensive houses is the big open barn with a counter stuck in the middle and expensive kitchen appliances and finish materials; in cheap houses I see the big open barn with a counter stuch in the middle and cheap appliances and finish materials; in older houses I see where people have removed as many walls as they can and the structure still remain standing, to approach as closely as possible the big open barn with a counter stuck in the middle and appliances and finish materials cheap, mid priced, or expensive depending on the budget of the ones who tore out all the walls. Finding an original non-mutilated house over 20 years old in a nice neighborhood has become pretty much impossible these days: it's all grey inside, white and black on the outside, same same same same.
I think you really haven't looked around as much as you think you have and think that a couple old viewings of HGTV are all that you need to know. I mean, if you hate HGTV so much, why do you watch it so often to "know" what every episode shows and that they ARE all the same? Hmm? And if you DON'T watch it, then why make the assumption that you DO know?
It's just like in the automotive section, where you rant about things that are either unimportant or from a position of simply not knowing the truth.
How about a smaller or inexpensive house having a practical non-open concept?
My 1200 SF house built in 1939 was an inexpensive house for its time. The only "openness" is that the living and dining rooms are separated by an arch.
It works FANTASTICALLY. You have privacy wherever you are. Noise doesn't travel. You don't have to be in the kitchen all the time If you have a larger gathering of people, instead of putting them all into a big open barn with all hard surfaces so they all have to scream at the top of their lungs and still can't be heard, people can break off and sit down and actually, you know, CONVERSE. (In those large houses "for entertaining", people still talk in groups of say 3-6 anyway, so instead of having 10 groups of 3-6 all yammering away inh the same loud space, why not let them actually be able to hear each other?) If you want to watch something on TV you go in the back bedroom where it is. If life got away from you and there's a huge pile of dirty dishes in the sink just as your new acquaintance that you want to make a good impression on drops by, close the swinging door to the kitchen.
I fail to see how knocking out the walls in my house would make it better. I can easily see how it would make it worse.
NO, wanting quiet and privacy when you share your home with other people is NOT "elitist".
I have a 1200sf 1932 home that there's french doors between the living and dining, and a large opening off the front door into the living room. And there's no room to put people if I want to have family over for a gathering or friends over for a game. Why? Because the closed off rooms in a 1200sf home are TINY.
it works HORRRIBLE.
If it was like this rendering I did, we could rearrange things as needed depending on the activity.
Sounds like a personal problem to me, in that you can't figure out what room you're in. Or do things that specifically annoy your SO.
And you really let things bother you that you need to get over. OMG someone is making some noise in the kitchen for a few minutes! The HORROR. I mean most of us don't have to deal with an inconsiderate musician practicing at odd hours.
[noise] Never had that problem in any of the homes with open concept I've visited and I'm over 60. But maybe you like making sure than no one can fit in your living room so you don't have to deal with the noise of visitors at a party. I like a home full of happy sounds and happy people at a family gathering (or when I have friends over to play pool or watch the game). No one yells at each other. And there's no echoing.
Do you usually practice during family gatherings or when friends are over watching the big game? As a trumpet player myself, I know *I* don't. Ignoring everyone to go off and practiced just seems rude.
I think you really haven't looked around as much as you think you have and think that a couple old viewings of HGTV are all that you need to know. I mean, if you hate HGTV so much, why do you watch it so often to "know" what every episode shows and that they ARE all the same? Hmm? And if you DON'T watch it, then why make the assumption that you DO know?
It's just like in the automotive section, where you rant about things that are either unimportant or from a position of simply not knowing the truth.
You're just intentionally choosing to misunderstand what I'm saying.
1) Some people prefer home to be quiet. Some obviously don't care. I care. My wife cares. We're not going to change.
2) If you haven't been to a large party in a large room with a bunch of people all talking at the same time, hard to hear what's going on, then you haven't experienced it. I can't help that.
[Edit: if the situation I describe doesn't bother you, then great! have your large parties in a big open room with all hard surfaces! Why should I have to do that because YOUR hearing doesn't bother you?]
3) Why would you conclude that I would want to practice while visitors are here? I'm talking about my wife and me. Neither one of us wants to sit with just one closed door between us when the other one's practicing.
4) I've been looking for a house to buy for about 4 years now. I have probably gone into 50 or more houses during that time. I know what's being built these days, and I know how people are remodeling houses these days. How many houses have you gone into in the last 4 years? What's being built is at least 90% a big open barn with a counter stuck out in the middle, so you have living room kitchen breakfast and dining room all in one big room with all hard surfaces everywhere. I'd say more than 75% of the remodeled houses I've seen in that time have had walls removed to "open up the space".
If I wanted my living/dining/kitchen/family areas to look like the lobby of a medium priced business hotel, I'd go live in a medium priced business hotel.
You're just intentionally choosing to misunderstand what I'm saying.
1) Some people prefer home to be quiet. Some obviously don't care. I care. My wife cares. We're not going to change.
2) If you haven't been to a large party in a large room with a bunch of people all talking at the same time, hard to hear what's going on, then you haven't experienced it. I can't help that.
[Edit: if the situation I describe doesn't bother you, then great! have your large parties in a big open room with all hard surfaces! Why should I have to do that because YOUR hearing doesn't bother you?]
3) Why would you conclude that I would want to practice while visitors are here? I'm talking about my wife and me. Neither one of us wants to sit with just one closed door between us when the other one's practicing.
4) I've been looking for a house to buy for about 4 years now. I have probably gone into 50 or more houses during that time. I know what's being built these days, and I know how people are remodeling houses these days. How many houses have you gone into in the last 4 years? What's being built is at least 90% a big open barn with a counter stuck out in the middle, so you have living room kitchen breakfast and dining room all in one big room with all hard surfaces everywhere. I'd say more than 75% of the remodeled houses I've seen in that time have had walls removed to "open up the space".
If I wanted my living/dining/kitchen/family areas to look like the lobby of a medium priced business hotel, I'd go live in a medium priced business hotel.
Wow, 50 houses in one geographical area. That seals it, I guess.
Wow, 50 houses in one geographical area. That seals it, I guess.
Well, two geographical areas, to be accurate.
Here's the quote:
"...mostly what I see in expensive houses is the big open barn with a counter stuck in the middle and expensive kitchen appliances and finish materials; in cheap houses I see the big open barn with a counter stuch in the middle and cheap appliances and finish materials; in older houses I see where people have removed as many walls as they can and the structure still remain standing..."
The observant reader will note the use of the words "I see" throughout. This implies "in my experience". Now I'll readily admit that it's POSSIBLE that somewhere in the US there is an area where open-plan houses are largely disliked and where new builds and major remodels tend to separate rooms with doors and walls between them. As you rightly note, I have not done a survey of new builds and remodels through the entire US. So I'll turn it back to you: are you aware of any area where the open-plan house is NOT the primary form of new builds and major remodels? And if so, where is it?
My 1200 SF house built in 1939 was an inexpensive house for its time. The only "openness" is that the living and dining rooms are separated by an arch.
It works FANTASTICALLY. You have privacy wherever you are. Noise doesn't travel. You don't have to be in the kitchen all the time If you have a larger gathering of people, instead of putting them all into a big open barn with all hard surfaces so they all have to scream at the top of their lungs and still can't be heard, people can break off and sit down and actually, you know, CONVERSE. (In those large houses "for entertaining", people still talk in groups of say 3-6 anyway, so instead of having 10 groups of 3-6 all yammering away inh the same loud space, why not let them actually be able to hear each other?) If you want to watch something on TV you go in the back bedroom where it is. If life got away from you and there's a huge pile of dirty dishes in the sink just as your new acquaintance that you want to make a good impression on drops by, close the swinging door to the kitchen.
I fail to see how knocking out the walls in my house would make it better. I can easily see how it would make it worse.
That sounds quite a bit like my house. My kitchen even has a swinging door. I don't see the dirty dishes and counter full of various devices charging unless I'm in the kitchen. My whole house doesn't smell like whatever I last cooked. Conversations are in my cozy living room instead of the kitchen, where there's a echo.
Trouble making out conversations where lots of people are talking is an auditory processing disorder. It's not necessarily hearing loss. I can hear my watch's little beeping alarm even when it's shut up in the closet and I'm in bed, but I can't make out anything at noisy parties or lunches.
There's a long thread in the Psychology section about why people don't want to live with roommates. I think houses used to be built with smaller rooms and nooks and crannies because more people lived together and they got on each others' nerves. I've lived alone for decades, but I can imagine the conflict in an open-concept house when one person wants the game on TV, another needs to have a Zoom call somewhere other than their bedroom, and someone else is running the garbage disposal. Life in a warehouse!
Many of us have never had, and don’t want, an open concept kitchen.
My reasons are….I don’t want the dirty dishes and pots and pans on view, I dont want cooking fumes and odors to waft over the whole house, and I like my kitchen to be my cozy sanctuary..
Imagine the joy of cleaning kitchen grease off the ceiling fans in your living room with vaulted ceilings.
Many of us have never had, and don’t want, an open concept kitchen.
My reasons are….I don’t want the dirty dishes and pots and pans on view,
Do you never clean up? Why would they be in view much longer than it takes to cook the meal? Are you afraid of being judged? By whom? Wouldn't friends and family coming over for a meal understand that you get pots and pans dirty while cooking?
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I dont want cooking fumes and odors to waft over the whole house,
And I LOVE the smells of good cooking wafting through the house. Mmm, spaghetti sauce, or homemade bread... Ahhh. It's part of the experience of getting ready to eat good food. Are you cooking lutefisk or something that smells terrible?
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and I like my kitchen to be my cozy sanctuary..
Away from whom?
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