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Even assuming you are correct and people are spending less time cooking, that still doesn't mean they are making smaller amounts of food at a time. I batch cook - so I'll roast a large quantity of vegetables at once, and then on subsequent days, I do use the toaster oven to heat up 1 or 2 portions. But I still need my big oven to cook them in the first place. Same thing with a large casserole. I can reheat portions, but I can't cook the entire thing in a toaster oven. Batch cooking saves a lot of time, so I suppose on average, it's possible it comes out to half an hour a day, but that doesn't mean 30 minutes every day, it frequently means a couple of hours one day and then just a few minutes on others.
The other critical thing to remember is that home buying is aspirational. While it's clear that you do not aspire to cook or entertain, many other people buying a house envision that scenario. Whether it actually happens is irrelevant - they will buy a house where they can imagine themselves living that life, not one where even if they wanted, they could never host a dinner party or a holiday dinner.
1. A lot of people never use more than the capacity of a toaster oven.
2. We've been trending toward spending less time cooking for the last ~100 years.
I theorize that if time spent cooking continues to decrease and the birthrate continues to fall (smaller households, more single people, single parents, etc) - smaller ovens may become more common in the future. How long? I don't know...maybe 20-30 years from now. I also think homes in general will be drastically smaller, but that's another subject.
And the why was a resounding "you'll kill your resale value" as you pointed out.
Thus, I am left to reason that if one can simply leave their gas connection and configure their new cabinets so that an oven can be slipped in (very easy) - there's no reason to have a conventional oven if you don't need it. If you don't plan on moving even better...you'll never have to use that gas connection. If smaller ovens become more acceptable in 20-30 as I theorize - none of this matters (if you're still alive at that time).
1. Resale value is only an issue of one plans on moving soon. Some folks simply don't move as much as CityData would lead you to believe (a forum largely centered around transplants getting to know a new area).
The average American moves once every five years. So it's not unreasonable to strongly consider resale value. When I worked in real estate, you wouldn't believe how many people would say, "Oh, I love this home - we're never going to move!" and then three or four years later call me and sheepishly say, "You'll never believe what we're about to do..." Oh, yes I would - and I told them to consider resale before they converted that garage into a game room! http://www.mymovingreviews.com/move/...americans-move
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2. Do you have any data that supports your claim of toaster ovens being unreliable?
Do you have any data that supports your idea that they're just as reliable as a regular oven? The reason I ask is because over the years I've replaced toaster ovens several times, but I've never had to replace an oven. And I have only had to call an appliance repair person out one time in the thirty five years I've been an adult to repair an oven - and then it was something so minor that the guy told me he felt guilty for even charging me for the service call!
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3. What does lack of flexibility mean?
People have been explaining this to you throughout this entire thread. I said it in my first post on this thread - "Never unnecessarily limit your options." Do you still not understand this concept?
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4. Future options may matter to some, but not all. I believe most adults have a good idea whether they'll be cooking large meals in the future. If you dislike cooking and you've never cooked a large meal - I'd say odds are you'll never do it. Like the articles I linked to stated - most Americans like to watch cooking on TV rather than doing it themselves.
You don't know what your future holds when it comes to cooking. Not to put too fine a point on it, but you're not even married to the woman you're with - what if you get with (or whatever you want to call it) a woman who enjoys cooking? There are many, many people - male and female - who LOVE cooking (not just watching cooking shows - believe it or not, there are tons of people out there who watch such shows and then (gasp) actually COOK). I'll tell you something else that's a possibility. You might actually come to the realization that you would like to cook on occasion. My husband didn't realize that he had a talent for cooking till he was in his mid thirties or so and now he really enjoys it.
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5. Counterspace requirements are more than offset by the size of a conventional oven. And like I said - for those that don't use an oven often, they can take it off the counter and store it in an upper cabinet, base cabinet or pantry.
Storing a huge toaster oven in precious cabinet space in a kitchen, but worrying about the size of cabinet space a small oven takes up - are you serious?
You really like to argue - I'll give you that much. But you asked for feedback, and the feedback has been overwhelmingly in favor of including an oven in a kitchen. Most people have also stated that it's your kitchen - do as you like. That doesn't mean that your choice is smart - it just means it's your right. Go forth and be short sighted and limit your options and throw a definite negative in the future sale of your home if you like. (And you will move one day - and it's probably sooner than you think. It nearly always is.)
I'm just wondering how practical this would be. Most of the remodeling shows make it seem like everyone is a master chef that needs a huge commercial oven. My girlfriend and I are far from it. Heck, in my family, I only know of one aunt that likes to bake a lot. Most of us are on the go too much to spend hours in the kitchen. When we do use the oven, it's never for anything bigger than a medium/large pizza. Once in a blue moon we'll make a small batch of brownies or cookies. We use our cooktop/microwave a lot and we eat out 3-4x/week. The only meals we could possibly have time to prepare in the oven are on the weekends, but who wants to spend any part of the weekend in the kitchen? Now for those with 5-6+ people in the house, sure - a large oven is probably needed.
One can buy a very large toaster oven for $100 that's big enough to cook two large pizzas or even a whole chicken. Therefore, it seems like for many people a huge oven is a waste of space. Aesthetically, it seems like all the nice looking ovens are over $1000. That's a lot to pay for something that's rarely used, prone to breaking and expensive to fix. IMO, eliminating the oven also gives the kitchen a cleaner more streamlined appearance.
What say you?
Always good to go back to the original.
On a practicality level, I think a large countertop oven is an inefficient use of space. I personally hate countertop clutter. If you rarely use it you'd have to store it somewhere (more dead space). I don't recommend building in an appliance that's not meant to be built in.
If you already have a cooktop and a microwave what gain are you exactly making? Those 2 take up a lot of space too? Don't they make combo microwave/convection units that could be mounted? That's a good option. Also ditch the cooktop and get a hotplate. You never use more than 1 burner anyway.
Get a good 24" range and save a ton of space and also rest easy knowing you're not wasting an extra 0.5 cubic feet of oven space!
Regarding counter space, at one time I had a range with a gas panel cooktop in a pretty small kitchen with limited counter space. I frequently laid a cutting board on one side while a pot simmered on the other. The cooktop was also a handy space for unloading groceries. If a toaster oven had been sitting there, I'd have had to take the time to move it out of the way. The flat cooktop was much more convenient. In a house where nobody needs an oven, why not just use the range for storage? There's plenty of space inside for pots and pans, and it won't limit your options should your lifestyle change.
No doubt you'll do what you want, but I think it's a mistake, and a big one at that.
Last edited by randomparent; 01-24-2015 at 08:09 AM..
The Daily Mail is about as accurate a source as Breitbart is. Just so you know.
Good thing I've linked to multiple sources that confirm their numbers!
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